Update: Disabled the ACRs, removed the A/C, did compression test . 210 on both jugs. Phew! Glad I don't have to worry about that anymore.

 

When I first picked up the PV I asked these same questions of the vendor. I was told to look at the table from right to left rather than left to right. Meaning the 100 kPa column was 91 to 100. 90 kPa was 81 to 90. As for RPM's...example: 1250 row was up to 1250. 3000 RPM row was up to 3000, and so on.

So, if I was given accurate info then a knock 67 kPa would be in the 70 column.

But, that's where it was recorded. Data can only travel so fast so where it exactly happened is a mystery. If you're looking at a data log I would look to see what was going on BEFORE it was recorded. Was it 59 kPa? Was it 62 kPa? Determining exactly where the knock happened versus where it was recorded can be tricky. Best thing to do is lower the cell it was recorded at and the surrounding cells. If you think you need to pull 2 degrees then pull 2 where it was recorded and 1 in the surrounding cells. Or, if you have time and feel like burning up some fuel pull 2 where the log shows and see what happens. Rinse and repeat until you nail it down. This is where Log Tuner comes in handy. It will identify the cell and how much to take out. It has been pretty reliable thus far when I use it for timing.

 

Thanks stailjim61

I for whatever reason have never been able to get Log tuner to work. I datalog and then look at the logs in excel. I look to see at what time in the log I get knock and then filter Time, MAP, RPM, Spark Advance, and Spark knock to determine where to pull timming from. Your guidelines will help me to make better decisions. I'm still getting 1-2 knock events in a 1/2 hour ride. They occur at moderate to hard excelleration anywhere from 2400-2900 RPM and 70-90 Kpa. Don't get any knock events during cruise state.

 

I've made a decision. To hell with closed loop. I'm a trained aircraft mechanic and I understand air cooled engines, I used to do regular maintenance on Cessnas years ago. I also flew them for a while. And something I keep thinking about is that in a Cessna, you have a mixture **** to control the mixture. Even with the newer fuel injected models it's still a manual mixture ****. And for takeoff, climb and landing - any time you need maximum engine performance - you go full rich...no matter what altitude. Once you reach cruise and you wanna save some gas, then you pull back the mix a little til just before max EGT. But that's just to get longer range. If you wanted, you could run full rich even up to 12K feet and it wouldn't HURT the engine. And I'm not even sure what the AFR for avgas at full rich position is, but I'm sure it's below 13:1.

POINT BEING, the ONLY reason for using closed loop is to save a LITTLE gas. But at what cost on an air cooled engine? What's wrong with my '04 WG that has no O2 sensors and therefore no closed loop? Absolutely nothing. It still gets around 30mpg. Sounds good to me. I'm tired of fighting with the knocking on my '13 when using closed loop maps.

What I've found from going through lines and lines of logged runs is that if I run a closed loop table, which therefore enables the adaptive fuel factor, it is always pulling fuel back...even in the open loop areas. And coincidentally, then I get knocking. When I run an open loop table, I get almost no knocking. And there is no adaptive factor to pull back fuel.

I've done all the autotuning I care to do, and it has only caused more problems. Maybe my O2 sensors are bad. Maybe their location in my aftermarket exhaust is causing them to read inaccurately. All I know is that autotuning and closed loop on MY bike DONT work for me.

My '04 which is all open loop has never once knocked. I know it's the 88 as opposed to the higher compression ratio of the 103, but there has to be something about not using O2 sensors that makes it run better. I'm more than willing to lose the 5 or so mpg that it might cost me to run a 13.8 cruise instead of 14.3. And environmentally...please.

These motors were never intended to be run closed loop. Air cooled aircraft engines don't and never will. Our bikes shouldn't either.

 

Hi,

Hope there's a good outcome for you red dragons, i made some changes to my fuel map so it was in open loop at a certain point and it was a good change, i wonder if the PV does offer "too much" adjustment, information etc and we need to stick with some basic EFI techniques

Thanks
Mirrmu

 

You need to change two XML tags in your Log files to get the current files to run in log tuner.

The following is copied directly from a previous post, I don't have the user's name, but you could probably find it by searching for 'Log Tuner Fix':

The problem is that Log Tuner expects to find two XML-tag in the .pvv-file like:

<Item name="VE (Front Cyl)" units="">
<Item name="VE (Rear Cyl)" units="">

The latest WinPV, however, produces the new tags like:
<Item name="VE (TPS based/Front Cyl)" units="">
<Item name="VE (TPS based/Rear Cyl)" units="">

Log tuner therefore complains that it does not find the VE table in the
.pvv - file.
I am sure this will be fixed soon, and while we are waiting for a fix,
we could of course roll back to an earlier version of WinPV.

Personally I prefer to use Notepad to search for "VE" to find the
two tags in the .pvv-file, and just erase "TPS base/" from both
of them.

Then Logtuner works as usual.

 

I noticed there are a few people trying to get some issues figured out but I am still looking for the answers to these questions.

Thanks!

 

I can only answer one of your questions with authority and that is you need to keep doing autotunes to get the VE to change less than 5%. Once that's done, you can work on other areas.

WinPV is where you can view log files on your computer.

Personally, I've done the VE's and I couldn't be happier with the way my bike is running...decent mileage 40-45 (with the speedo/odo calibrated), and nice power.

 

I created THIS POST a few weeks ago in a new thread in an effort to help the new PV user. I saw little point trying to add to a PV information thread that was over 6000 posts long, because in no time my post would be buried and lost. This is the kind of information I was seeking when I first received my PV. Hopefully you find it helpful.

 

You can view your logs with Excel. That's where you look for knock events.

RWT referred to this in the attachment to his post, you may have missed it.

Concentrate on getting your VE Tables right, then you can look at knock events and adjust timing.