Originally Posted by fullautomike

Basically after a base run with my current tune, he loaded my FM base map that I adjusted with auto tune. I pulled timing out of my current tune to stop the pinging, and I ended up pulling way too much.(I knew this but I was chasing my tail) So the FM base map with the auto tune adjusted VE tables had a FM's timing with only a minor correction done for me by Jamie. What John at Dyno Solutions did was adjust my VE's. I never could have done this. First off John knows his sheet! Secondly with the dyno it shows where I was rich and where I was lean. John used the dyno and his know how and brought it all in. The improvement is dramatic. I'm so glad I'm a quitter and brought my bike to a professional. I guess I can tweak the tune in the future, but I have no such plans.
So the pinging was coming from the lean condition or it was in my head......or maybe a little of each.

If you are looking for a dyno professional. Check out http://www.dyno-solutions.com you can't go wrong with John. He is in Brookfield CT.

Originally Posted by Red Dragons

Hey man, thanks for taking the time to think about this issue. I am starting to get worried that there is a serious issue with the front cylinder, mechanically, and i'm not sure that the dealer will cover it under warranty given all the work I've done. But first, on to what I learned today...


First off, I have been using log tuner on my recent test runs to locate the trouble areas and environmental conditions that lead to the knock events. The log files can be opened with MS Excel and I find it pretty easy to read the data just in spreadsheet format. I haven't done an AT session for a few weeks because I don't think doing more of them will solve the problem

So today I decided to forget about my AT runs and copied the VE tables from the tune Jaime(FM) sent me. Then I loaded up the original factory spark tables. Then I set my AFR table to a 13.8 cruise, open loop table, and took her out....and for the most part it worked! I rode pretty hard in almost 100 degree temps and only got 4 very light knocks in the front cylinder detected by the PV in about 20 miles of riding. So this was good and bad, because while I may have gotten it to run better, it also means that the autotune sessions are indeed making my VE tables way too lean...so why is that? Maybe the oil problem you mentioned?

So after running the open loop table til I was satisfied, I loaded up a closed loop AFR tune as a test. Still on the rich side, the cruise areas were set to 14.4. I changed nothing but the AFR table! Then headed out....in the span of about 5 miles I had 20 front cylinder knocks and 6 in the rear. ALL I changed was the AFR table from a 13.8 open loop to 14.4 closed loop, and only in the middle cruise areas. The rest of the table was still rich open loop. What the hell?! So basically now I can only run an open loop AFR if I want to avoid knocks. I loaded the open loop tune back up and rode home just fine with no knocks.

Back in the garage. While the engine was still warm I thought it might be a good idea to do a compression test. The results are concerning. 125psi front, 145psi rear. The service manual says 125 is the minimum and there should be no more than a 10% difference between the two. Obviously an engine with 7500 miles should not have a cylinder at minimums and have such a disparity between the two. I think at this point I need to get a good look inside with a borescope because I can barely see the piston tops with a flashlight through the plug holes. What I can see though is cracked, rocky carbon on the piston tops and no aluminum at all.

However the new plugs I installed last week look shockingly good now. Nice dry slightly brown insulator and no buildup so far. I think if the problem was burning oil, the plugs would have the telltale wet black look. I did just do a really heavy seafoaming though. But even the old plugs I just took out after a year and a half were completely dry and white from heat. Not black, wet or carbony.

So there ya have it. I'm gonna keep running the open loop AFR and my current settings for now, even though my mpg is going to suffer. Another thing I keep thinking about is that this is only a problem in the summer when it's really hot like it is now. When ambient temps drop 20 degrees I have no problems. It makes me wonder how many Harleys are on the roads here knocking constantly without their owners even being aware of it. I think mine had been doing it for a while but then a couple months ago I put the closed end back on my Supertrapp which made it quieter, and that was when I heard the first ticks.

Originally Posted by stailjim61

As has been said many times before, there's nothing better than a pro that knows what he's doing. These Fisher Price tuners do a good job of getting a bike running decent, but that's about it. They work good as long as a bike doesn't have any mechanical issues, leaks, weak or lazy sensors, etc. Once an issue rears its ugly head these tuners just don't cut it. All one does is chase his tail. Whereas, a pro tuner will see somethings a little fishy and most of the time know exactly where to look. The DIY'er tuner will be chasing his tail and frustration sets in. I still think the DIY'er tuners do a fairly good job at getting a bike running pretty decent. But as you just found out, ya gotta pay if ya wanna play.

Originally Posted by stailjim61

As has been said many times before, there's nothing better than a pro that knows what he's doing. These Fisher Price tuners do a good job of getting a bike running decent, but that's about it. They work good as long as a bike doesn't have any mechanical issues, leaks, weak or lazy sensors, etc. Once an issue rears its ugly head these tuners just don't cut it. All one does is chase his tail. Whereas, a pro tuner will see somethings a little fishy and most of the time know exactly where to look. The DIY'er tuner will be chasing his tail and frustration sets in. I still think the DIY'er tuners do a fairly good job at getting a bike running pretty decent. But as you just found out, ya gotta pay if ya wanna play.

Originally Posted by Red Dragons

Does anyone know the ideal idle spark advance. Stock is 20 degrees. I've seen other tuners do 16-18. I've tried all of these and can't really tell any difference. I just wanna do everything possible to lower idle temps, and in addition to adding fuel, it seems logical that bringing spark back might help a little. I also set idle to 950rpm instead of 1000, though I doubt that has much of an impact, it just sounds a little better. Anyway, 20 degrees for idle seems a bit high. Just wondering if anyone knows of a reason to keep it that high.

Originally Posted by Moneywoes

My timing table has 28* in the 70 kpa, 2250 rpm cell. does this mean my timing is 28* for 70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79 kpa or is it more like 66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75 kpa? If I'm getting a spark knock recorded at 67kpa is it occurring in the 60 or 70 kpa column? Also my RPM tables go from rows 2000,2250,2500 so spark knock occurring at 2400RMP is in the 2250 or the 2500 RPM rows?
Thanks,
Ken