Power Vision Information Thread
#5451
09-27-2013, 08:58 AM
Road Master
- There is no difference in capability or logging parameters between Autotune basic vs. Log Tuner. However, on Auto tune basic you just blindly accept the correction suggested by the data collected and flash it to your current tune without reviewing what it changes vs. Log Tuner you get to review the suggested change and apply it manually with the obvious option to apply what you want to apply only.
- Basically in my opinion the manuals that has been around making it seems like Power Vision run Autotune Basic and PC run Log Tuner are two different things with common goal. On the other hand, my experiments shows that with the latest firmware both are doing exactly the same thing, the only difference is on how it apply the correction to the map (Directly on PV vs via PC).
Correct me if I am wrong, like I said I might be just plain dumb. In the meantime I will try not to add even more pages to this already super long thread.
- Basically in my opinion the manuals that has been around making it seems like Power Vision run Autotune Basic and PC run Log Tuner are two different things with common goal. On the other hand, my experiments shows that with the latest firmware both are doing exactly the same thing, the only difference is on how it apply the correction to the map (Directly on PV vs via PC).
Correct me if I am wrong, like I said I might be just plain dumb. In the meantime I will try not to add even more pages to this already super long thread.
Log Tune works with your current timing and current AFR's
So this is one difference.
#5452
09-27-2013, 10:52 AM
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Knock events
I asked Jamie about knock events and the need to remove all of them and here is his answer:
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
#5453
09-27-2013, 11:03 AM
Road Master
I asked Jamie about knock events and the need to remove all of them and here is his answer:
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
Thanks for sharing this info with us. That really makes sense and I agree, based on my limited experience.
#5454
09-27-2013, 11:07 AM
Road Master
#5455
09-27-2013, 05:07 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
#5456
09-27-2013, 05:54 PM
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Thanks for the advices, much appreciated.
I have read the entire thread starting from page 250 something when they started to discuss AT or LT, pages before that are not relevant anymore discussing the earlier firmware. I have done my homework before decided to add more to this thread. Nice way to eat through time during boring office hour
Maybe I am just plain dumb or the thread applies to the older firmware not latest one, but I still have my confusion.
Autotuned 4 more runs last night and it's getting closer and closer. VE corrections dropped from 15% to 11% on 4th run and my AFR sniffer got even more consistent reading.
AFR sniffer is fine but it won't help much unless you know it is 100% spot on calibrated. I guess what I'm wondering is if you have an accurate way of measuring AFR why are you messing around doing AT runs with a Fischer Price tuner. If the sniffer, whatever you're calling that, is accurate you'd be better off using that.
One last thing I will add to this lengthy thread, this might be useful for the other too.
-I have all the latest software and firmware (updated everything 3 days ago), I found out that I do not need to manually assign 11 channels to do tuner log. The auto tune screen will do everything automatically perfectly and I can import all the correct logging data with all the parameters to Log Tuner software fine. minus 4 degrees timing, and setting CLB's to 700 (for AFR cals), unless I missed some new update.
-I still need to manually set lambda to 1 on working Lambda table, found out if I let AT screen to do it for me automatically I will get a lot of NBF:0 or NBR:0 during green tracer cell/log tuning screen. All that means is you have a sensor that is on OL.
- No need to manually enter 319245 code anymore to go to green tracer cell/log tuning screen, it can be done with the push of a button on AT screen. That code went away. I wish they would bring it back but many have tried.
- There is no difference in capability or logging parameters between Autotune basic vs. Log Tuner. However, on Auto tune basic you just blindly accept the correction suggested by the data collected and flash it to your current tune without reviewing what it changes vs. Log Tuner you get to review the suggested change and apply it manually with the obvious option to apply what you want to apply only. Yes different parameters. AT basic manipulates the data. Log Tuner doesn't.
- Basically in my opinion the manuals that has been around making it seems like Power Vision run Autotune Basic and PC run Log Tuner are two different things with common goal. On the other hand, my experiments shows that with the latest firmware both are doing exactly the same thing, the only difference is on how it apply the correction to the map (Directly on PV vs via PC). See above
Correct me if I am wrong, like I said I might be just plain dumb. In the meantime I will try not to add even more pages to this already super long thread.
I have read the entire thread starting from page 250 something when they started to discuss AT or LT, pages before that are not relevant anymore discussing the earlier firmware. I have done my homework before decided to add more to this thread. Nice way to eat through time during boring office hour
Maybe I am just plain dumb or the thread applies to the older firmware not latest one, but I still have my confusion.Autotuned 4 more runs last night and it's getting closer and closer. VE corrections dropped from 15% to 11% on 4th run and my AFR sniffer got even more consistent reading.
AFR sniffer is fine but it won't help much unless you know it is 100% spot on calibrated. I guess what I'm wondering is if you have an accurate way of measuring AFR why are you messing around doing AT runs with a Fischer Price tuner. If the sniffer, whatever you're calling that, is accurate you'd be better off using that.
One last thing I will add to this lengthy thread, this might be useful for the other too.
-I have all the latest software and firmware (updated everything 3 days ago), I found out that I do not need to manually assign 11 channels to do tuner log. The auto tune screen will do everything automatically perfectly and I can import all the correct logging data with all the parameters to Log Tuner software fine. minus 4 degrees timing, and setting CLB's to 700 (for AFR cals), unless I missed some new update.
-I still need to manually set lambda to 1 on working Lambda table, found out if I let AT screen to do it for me automatically I will get a lot of NBF:0 or NBR:0 during green tracer cell/log tuning screen. All that means is you have a sensor that is on OL.
- No need to manually enter 319245 code anymore to go to green tracer cell/log tuning screen, it can be done with the push of a button on AT screen. That code went away. I wish they would bring it back but many have tried.
- There is no difference in capability or logging parameters between Autotune basic vs. Log Tuner. However, on Auto tune basic you just blindly accept the correction suggested by the data collected and flash it to your current tune without reviewing what it changes vs. Log Tuner you get to review the suggested change and apply it manually with the obvious option to apply what you want to apply only. Yes different parameters. AT basic manipulates the data. Log Tuner doesn't.
- Basically in my opinion the manuals that has been around making it seems like Power Vision run Autotune Basic and PC run Log Tuner are two different things with common goal. On the other hand, my experiments shows that with the latest firmware both are doing exactly the same thing, the only difference is on how it apply the correction to the map (Directly on PV vs via PC). See above
Correct me if I am wrong, like I said I might be just plain dumb. In the meantime I will try not to add even more pages to this already super long thread.
#5457
09-27-2013, 06:10 PM
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I asked Jamie about knock events and the need to remove all of them and here is his answer:
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
"There are going to be some knock events even in a well tuned bike, remember adaptive knock retard senses cylinder pressure not actual detonation. The key is working within the limitations of the system and many times if an individual is focused on removing every single knock event they end up with a timing table that is less that optimal with not enough advance."
I would like to see retailers, the ones that tune for a living, give better responses than that. An example of what's acceptable vs. what's not, would be much more beneficial to the end user who is in the learning stages. Better yet, if they sell a product why not publish a manual that explains what's going on. DynoJet has the worst instruction for a newb. Great marketing guy, but well below acceptable in the "how to" and "how to interpret" department. It would be great if FM stepped up to the plate and published some serious, real DIY'er, tech info for the folks that buy from them. Forget about "push this button" and "push that button". I think what folks need is a "this is how to tune your bike" manual. This is what to datalog. This is how to interpret the data. This is how to make an adjustment. This what the desired result should be. yada yada yada. I could go on and on but until someone steps up to the plate and takes the initiative to publish some usefull manuals PV will always be second rate. I think it's a great tool, but there isn't much going on behind the scene to explain, in full detail, the potential of it.
Anyway, b,efore anyone accepts "pinging" they should run a datalog and see how many times it pings in the same area. LT won't tell you this (how consistent) but a datalog will. If it consistently pings in the same area, it needs to be addressed, even if that's the only event happening. If it was an oddball, one time event, screw it. The ECM can deal with the stragglers, to a point. What it boils down to is if it's a stray event or is it an event that is consistent. A consistent event, even if it's the ONLY event, that is happening in the area you ride 80% or 90% of time, will bite you in the behind.
PS...I wasn't slamming anyone. I just wish "someone" would sit down and put together some serious documentation that fully explains all the functions and how to use them.
Last edited by stailjim61; 09-27-2013 at 06:44 PM.
#5459
09-27-2013, 07:03 PM
Outstanding HDF Member