I bought the PV because it can be upgraded - meaning I can buy auto tune pro kit later...right now could not afford it.
And Iīm feeling a lot happier now when the bike isnīt running awfully lean ( stock map AFR was 15 to1 in cruising range - FuelMoto map changed that ).
Also to be able to read DTCs was important to me ( was getting "P1358 Rear Cylinder Combustion Intermittent" -code...cleared that and changed plugs from NGK back to Harley originals...no more error codes ).

 

JSTS....got it. then you got what you wanted. So sounds like your happy with your choice.

I will have to check my DTC,s i also run NGK spark plugs. Has anyone else had this error code from running other than stock sparkplugs? I have seen posting both ways. Some say some plugs are not good to run because the ECM dont like them and others say they have no problem with other than what came stock.

 

I finally caved and had the bike dyno'd. Since upgrading cams, I haven't been able to get things right with AT or LT.

I'm really happy with the results. The tuner told me to expect a drop in MPG, but after one tank, I'm still getting 40 MPG. Temps are down below 240 while cruising, and never got above 260 in traffic. No more sputtering when cold, and acceleration is strong and smooth.

The tuner gave me 2 maps, one locked and one unlocked. The AFR is nothing like what I had before, and closed loop is disabled. I've read some debate over the closed loop/open loop thing, but if my ride is cooler, smoother, stronger, with comparable MPG, what is the advantage of being closed loop?

I am not trying to be a smart ***...I really want to know what the advantage of running closed loop is in case I decided to go back.

Thanks.

 

I asked the same thing...post 5081 and it was answered. Can I ask what your cruising AFR is ? One of my maps is .965 and the other is .981 and I was wondering how rich a guy could go without wasting fuel and gumming things up. If you'd rather not say I would understand.

 

I cruise in the 3000 RPM range (75-85mph). At 50kpa, AFR is .940.

I'm not sure if that's apples to apples though unless we have the same engine, intake, exhaust, cams, etc.

So, I guess my question is really...if I ride at sea level, never leave the coast and avg. outside temps only vary by about 20 degrees...is there an advantage to closed loop over my dyno tuned open loop that I'm missing?

Thanks.

 

Closed loop is a choked down setup designed for EPA. Ask tuners what they set the AFR at BEFORE 02 sensors were around. I'm willing to bet not one will tell you they tuned bikes at 14.6. In a water cooled engine stoich can be managed, but on an air cooled engines I say not. Now, that's not to say you can't get away with closed loop in certain riding situations. I set up for closed loop in a 500 RPM range that's strictly cruise only. I feel one can get away with it because there's enough airflow to keep the heads reasonably cool. Another consideration to keep in mind is how the tune was achieved. If it was done on a drum and sniffed out I don't see any reason at all to run closed loop anywhere. The flip side is if the tune was done with one of the home brew tuners then closed loop probably has more benefit as the VE's may or may not be spot on. They may be close, but I don't feel they could ever be as good as a sniffer tune. The closed loop fans will argue all day long about how the system compensates for changes. The system does just that, to a slight degree. However, it does it at 14.6, lean and hot. Take a look at a CLB table and you'll see that doesn't really richen it up much. Where it's significant it's at a point where the o2 sensors are working out of their comfort zone. With a proper tune why would one want to run at 14.6? They have to answer that one on their own. Ever read a post where someone says "Wow my bike is running great, I got 50 MPG this weekend". That bike is not running great, it's running lean. More EPA nonsense. But, once someone drinks enough of the kool-aid they start to believe anything. This is a subject where folks need to do their homework and decide for themselves what to do. If they want higher MPG at the expense of heat then that's up to them. Keep in mind though, heat is a destroyer of engines. Where is the best power made? Is it 14.6? More like mid 13's. So, does someone want to run a closed loop, lean, hot, weak motor? Again, totally up to them what they decide. The bottom line is this folks. There are alot of opinions out there on the CL vs. OL topic, mine included. Do your homework and decide for yourself.

 

This is equivalent to 13.8 AFR. In the pre O2 sensor days when I had my bikes dyno tuned, I think the tuners used 13.2 - 13.6 for best all around good mannered riding.

 

Check this out in the classifieds section if your looking for a PV mount.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/multi...-shipping.html

 

You Missed one very important part stailjim61 Richer than 14.6 and you are breakin the LAW.

PS I think it sucks too.

 

Thanks again for the insight. The bike runs and feels way better, and isn't burning my leg off anymore. I guess that's enough homework for me. Now I just have to resist the temptation to tinker.