Power Vision Information Thread
#451
05-26-2011, 05:56 AM
Cruiser
Could all of you with a mounted PV compare the speed you are showing on (1) the bike's speedometer, (2) VSS signal (vehicle speed seen by the ECM/PV) on the PV in the gauge section, and (3) your GPS if you have one? Be careful and don't have a wreck looking at three different gauges while you're riding!!!
I have my speedometer set with the GPS, which I assume is correct, and VSS shows 2-3% slower than the speedometer. This is a problem because the way DJ is programming the MPG-gauge accuracy in the latest beta FW is to use a new parameter called "MPG calibration." This adjusts not MPG directly as it suggests but rather the fuel-used parameter. The beta-FW now has this new calibration available from the PV only (i.e. not WinPV), and when you tweak this and the Speedometer Calibration you will have a correct MPG reading.
The problem is that on my bike if I adjust Speedometer Calibration for MPG the speedometer will not be correct. VSS (changeable with Speedometer Calibration) is 2-3% slower than my bike's speedometer and both are changed with the Speedometer Calibration.
Y'all please check yours and let me know, as I'm trying to convince DJ that doing it this way is a bad idea. If everyone's bike is like mine you will have to choose two out of three gauges to be accurate, as you can't have all three.
I have my speedometer set with the GPS, which I assume is correct, and VSS shows 2-3% slower than the speedometer. This is a problem because the way DJ is programming the MPG-gauge accuracy in the latest beta FW is to use a new parameter called "MPG calibration." This adjusts not MPG directly as it suggests but rather the fuel-used parameter. The beta-FW now has this new calibration available from the PV only (i.e. not WinPV), and when you tweak this and the Speedometer Calibration you will have a correct MPG reading.
The problem is that on my bike if I adjust Speedometer Calibration for MPG the speedometer will not be correct. VSS (changeable with Speedometer Calibration) is 2-3% slower than my bike's speedometer and both are changed with the Speedometer Calibration.
Y'all please check yours and let me know, as I'm trying to convince DJ that doing it this way is a bad idea. If everyone's bike is like mine you will have to choose two out of three gauges to be accurate, as you can't have all three.
#452
05-26-2011, 12:54 PM
I just tried to use the log tuner but did not get anything to show up when i tried to calculate the tune. The map i got from fuel moto has my afr set for 14.5 which i believe would not put me into closed loop, do i have to change all the 14.5 cells in my map to 14.6 to go into closed loop for the auto tune basic to work?
#453
05-26-2011, 04:33 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
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Jamie - I also have a couple of questions (that will hopefully be helpful to others). I will be currently using the AutoTune Basic function.
1. As the previous post asks, does the AFR table have to force closed loop (14.6 cell values)? If so, can I tune similar to TTS by setting almost all to 14.6 to have it sweep all cells?
2. I run a high Closed Loop bias table, between 700 and 800 on most cells. Do you recommend getting closer to 550 for more accurate calculations?
3. If E10 gas is the mostly used (for me it is, locally), what effect will setting the Stoich Value to 14.1 in the Log Tuner Options? Do you recommend using 14.1 or 14.6?
4. Does the logging on the PV have to be in that exact order with only those channels? I normally log the max amount so I have the most amount of data to pour over when analyzing logs.
5. Does the timing analysis advance timing or just retard it? I assume you have to set it high and let it retard it, in order to advance the map.
Thank you very much for your hard work on the product and I'm excited to start experimenting with the Log Tuner!
Aaron
1. As the previous post asks, does the AFR table have to force closed loop (14.6 cell values)? If so, can I tune similar to TTS by setting almost all to 14.6 to have it sweep all cells?
2. I run a high Closed Loop bias table, between 700 and 800 on most cells. Do you recommend getting closer to 550 for more accurate calculations?
3. If E10 gas is the mostly used (for me it is, locally), what effect will setting the Stoich Value to 14.1 in the Log Tuner Options? Do you recommend using 14.1 or 14.6?
4. Does the logging on the PV have to be in that exact order with only those channels? I normally log the max amount so I have the most amount of data to pour over when analyzing logs.
5. Does the timing analysis advance timing or just retard it? I assume you have to set it high and let it retard it, in order to advance the map.
Thank you very much for your hard work on the product and I'm excited to start experimenting with the Log Tuner!
Aaron
#454
05-26-2011, 05:04 PM
#455
05-27-2011, 12:49 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Download and install this nifty app which will add DoPDF to your printer list. When you select it as the printer it will create a PDF file that can be saved anywhere you want it. It works very well and I use it frequently, including to save the PDF you mention. BTW, it is freeware.
Thank you that works. Not sure why i used to be able to save. Browser updates i supose.
#456
05-27-2011, 09:45 AM
Tourer
#457
05-27-2011, 09:55 AM
I have a few questions on the new PV data logger and AutoTune Basic:
- The AutoTune Instructions suggest making sure key parameters are being saved in the data log file. I removed all parameters other than those listed in the instructions for data logging. Is that correct? I realize that the deleted parameters can be easily added again, but I just wanted to make sure I'm using the right process for limiting the data log parameters to those that are used by the AutoTune Basic software.
- AutoTune Basic also appears to make adjustments to the spark advance tables based on knock events in both the front and rear cylinders. Should I conclude that AT Basic only LOWERS spark advance based on logged knock events and that it doesn't raise timing if there is no knock present?
- For the AutoTune Basic to make timing adjustments, should the data logging be done with the Knock Retard turned OFF in the operating tune file while collecting data?
Last edited by Heatwave; 05-27-2011 at 10:05 AM.
#458
05-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Platinum Sponsor
Jamie - I also have a couple of questions (that will hopefully be helpful to others). I will be currently using the AutoTune Basic function.
1. As the previous post asks, does the AFR table have to force closed loop (14.6 cell values)? If so, can I tune similar to TTS by setting almost all to 14.6 to have it sweep all cells?
2. I run a high Closed Loop bias table, between 700 and 800 on most cells. Do you recommend getting closer to 550 for more accurate calculations?
3. If E10 gas is the mostly used (for me it is, locally), what effect will setting the Stoich Value to 14.1 in the Log Tuner Options? Do you recommend using 14.1 or 14.6?
4. Does the logging on the PV have to be in that exact order with only those channels? I normally log the max amount so I have the most amount of data to pour over when analyzing logs.
5. Does the timing analysis advance timing or just retard it? I assume you have to set it high and let it retard it, in order to advance the map.
Thank you very much for your hard work on the product and I'm excited to start experimenting with the Log Tuner!
Aaron
1. As the previous post asks, does the AFR table have to force closed loop (14.6 cell values)? If so, can I tune similar to TTS by setting almost all to 14.6 to have it sweep all cells?
2. I run a high Closed Loop bias table, between 700 and 800 on most cells. Do you recommend getting closer to 550 for more accurate calculations?
3. If E10 gas is the mostly used (for me it is, locally), what effect will setting the Stoich Value to 14.1 in the Log Tuner Options? Do you recommend using 14.1 or 14.6?
4. Does the logging on the PV have to be in that exact order with only those channels? I normally log the max amount so I have the most amount of data to pour over when analyzing logs.
5. Does the timing analysis advance timing or just retard it? I assume you have to set it high and let it retard it, in order to advance the map.
Thank you very much for your hard work on the product and I'm excited to start experimenting with the Log Tuner!
Aaron
On AFR calibration we generally set the bias table to 700. The stoich value in PV tuner applies to Lambda based calibrations, on AFR calibration you control this with the bias table manually.
You can log as many channels as you want and they do not need to be in order, however the more you log the larger the files become and PV log tuner will take longer for them to load and calculate the edits. I recommend for best results logging the basic required channels and if needed adding a few of your own if desired. I have found logging in 15-20 minute sessions works about the best.
Because the timing is corrected using the adaptive knock retard, PV tuner is only able to correct it by removing advance based on knock events. You can generally watch the events and start adding in 2-3 degree intervals.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
#459
05-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Platinum Sponsor
I have a few questions on the new PV data logger and AutoTune Basic:
- The AutoTune Instructions suggest making sure key parameters are being saved in the data log file. I removed all parameters other than those listed in the instructions for data logging. Is that correct? I realize that the deleted parameters can be easily added again, but I just wanted to make sure I'm using the right process for limiting the data log parameters to those that are used by the AutoTune Basic software.
- AutoTune Basic also appears to make adjustments to the spark advance tables based on knock events in both the front and rear cylinders. Should I conclude that AT Basic only LOWERS spark advance based on logged knock events and that it doesn't raise timing if there is no knock present?
- For the AutoTune Basic to make timing adjustments, should the data logging be done with the Knock Retard turned OFF in the operating tune file while collecting data?
#460
05-27-2011, 01:10 PM