Those temps are while I'm running AutoTune but they also get pretty high even after tuning sessions.

 

Has anybody ever seen real world data and proof that richer Lambda = cooler engine temps?

 

Only proof I have is watching my temps under similar conditions. Richer mixtures will only slightly make a difference. At best, a richer AFR seems to slow down the temp increase, at idle anyway. It's not only AFR but timing too. Timing affects temps too so AFR alone is just one factor to consider.

 

Ive noticed the tunes that have my bike running the best, also having it running "hotter" in the low 400's, with my oil temp about 210, im running Mobil-1

 

I've noticed that my bike runs a bit hotter while auto tuning, I thinkKthis is mostly caused by the afr being set to 14.6 across the board and riding a lot more aggressively trying to hit different cells. with your AT pro it sets the afr to 13.2 correct? Or is it 13.8?

 

I think it just hits whatever your AFR table is set at, I don't believe it presets like the basic does. At least it appears that way when I watch the AFR gauge on my PV when I'm auto tuning. It's not locked in at 13.2, it jumps to 14.6 or whatever the table is set at based on your rpm and Kpa, etc as you are riding

 

Did not know that. I thought i saw it somewhere it set all the cells to something like 13.2 ( instead of 14.6 for basic ). if that is true that it does not change the A/F across the board....now im interested in how it tunes the VE? Maybe it is because the wide band sensor can read such a broad range that it can operate like that? I think the wide band reads from 10 to 1 up to 15 or 16 to 1? Iclick was real up on the wide band stuff.

 

Chris
As I've mentioned before, my knowledge of AT is limited as I've always used Log Tuner. It's always troubled me that your your early tuning runs got worse before it finally started to go in the right direction and got better.

If AT repopulates the entire map to 14.6, then you've thrown away your base map (from Fuel Moto or Dynojet) when you start your AT runs, and develop a full closed loop map...so the ECM sets your AFR's. This might explain why your bike started going in the wrong direction. Then with subsequent AT runs it began correcting the VE's to get a better running map.

My base map from Fuel Moto ran pretty well. Jamie probably developed these maps on the dyno. If you look at your base map I think you will see that its a hybrid map with most of the cruise range set to 14.4-14.6 AFR with richer settings in the low and high ranges with many values in the 12-14 AFR range...especially at high RPM and kPA values.

I've had good luck using Log Tuner and keeping the AFR values from the base tune. Log Tuner will also correct timing and that is helpful.

Anyway that may explain your original tuning abnormalities. I also suspect many AT users are running on the lean side, and that may cause some of the timing issues some have reported.

Just my thoughts...I don't like illogical results. Compare your base tune AFRs to your current AT AFRs. I'd be interested in the results.

 

NH.... I also started with a map from fuelmoto. It ran fine just as you have seen with your map. My early runs started getting a bit of decel pop and things like that. That is why i said it seemed to be going backwards. Bad wording on my part. i was not descriptive enough. When i got to the third tuning run it started running good again. I have done 5 runs total. It seems to be runing real good now. Even with the hot days we have had recently. The only problem i have had was with some knock after gasing up in Maine. i assumed it was because it was 91. Honestly the more i think about it....it was a small po-dunk station. probably not the best quality gas.

It was sort of a hybrid map as you describe. i would assume that all of jamies maps are like that. i agree that the map he sent me probably was developed on a dyno. It was not as responcive as my final results. It was more responcive than my first 2 AT runs. Dont know....maybe the conditions i was trying to AT in had something to do with it. My final 3 AT runs i might have got lucky and had favorable conditions.....or..... i did not find any exhaust leaks....but i did go back and make sure my flanges were tourqued to 180 inch pounds. This may have been the magic formula. As far as i know i have not seen anyone have the same weird results at first i had. had to be something i did wrong. i have always felt that way.

Taking a good map and changing it does sound weird though. jamies maps are very good in my opnion. but not taylored to each bike and environment. I probably could have taken my stock map and started AT runs. Might have gotten the same result....just would have taken longer in my opnion. I also think that the timing would have been further off, but i could be wrong.

 

NH.... i re read this post....let me see if i understand what you are saying. Are you under the assumption that the AT sets the air fuel ration to 14.6 to 1 and after you are done with your auto tune run it leaves the air fuel ratios at 14.6 to 1?

i have to ask because i almost read it that way and was not sure if that is what you are saying it does? When you do an AT with narrow band sensors it sets the entire Air fuel table to 14.6 to 1 on a temporary basis. When you are done with your AT run and you flash the AT to your ecm the air fuel table is back to where it was. What i mean is if you have a starter tune that is open loop....the AT will set it closed loop in all A/F cells for the auto tune process only. This is just so the narrow band sensors can get a read in all kpa and rpm ranges and adjust your VE. After you are done and flash the AT back to the ecm....the A/F table is back to the base tune settings but with corrected VE.

I just wanted to make sure i read your post right. I think i confused my self.