Couldn't agree more. I call them worry guages. My thighs are pretty good at telling me when the bike is getting hot. There are thousands of bikes around the South/Southwest without guages and they do just fine.

 

Looks like you're almost done. I wouldn't worry too much about the 80 and 100 columns. That's questionable data. You'll be in PE mode and open loop out there. You could get away with blending it out from 80 or just leaving the same settings you had in the canned map. Take a look at the canned map and you'll see a trend in those columns and use it as a guage to manually set the VE's. The only thing I would suggest is if you plan to be in the WOT throttle areas alot I would get them sniffed.

 

Did you already convert it over to a closed loop system? What's making you think you're running lean in some areas and rich in others?

 

First, are you 100% positive you're pulling timing in the correct cells? It's tricky at times, especially when the knock retard crosses cells. You need to read the kPa columns from right to left. Ex: the 70kPa column is actually 61 to 70. The 100kPa column is 91 to 100, it can't be 101 to 110. 100 kPa is the highest, theoretically. If you're using the RPM and kPa from the exact datalog cell where the knock first showed and then making a correction in your cal at the exact same reference points you might be in the wrong cell. The ECM isn't the fastest runner on the track. By the time the datalog actually records the knock event it could easily have happened in the datalog cell/cells before. Meaning, the knock could have accurred in a previous kPa cell, or even a previous RPM cell. I gave up sitting there trying to analyze a datalog and find it easier, quicker and less guess work to let Log Tuner make the adjustments. Or get up to the point where Log Tuner does calc tune, and then copy the results into your map. 30 seconds to make a .pvv file, 30 seconds to get log, 30 seconds for Log Tuner to show results. Much nicer than scrolling through a datalog and then trying to interpret the data and catch the correct cell.

Are you sure you're odometer is correct? I know you was dealing with the same issue a couple months back, but 32 seems low. Have you compared it to a GPS? How does the bike feel, sluggish or nice and crisp? Are your plugs pretty white. They should be just slighly off white. Anything darker is rich. Any soot in your exhaust? What do the CLI's look like on a datalog? They should be staying pretty close to +/- 2% at a steady state cruise. Is the data log showing accel enrichment kicking in alot? You shouldn't see AE kicking in all that much unless your spanking it all the time.

I'll figure out how to post a pic. But for now, I run: (TPS cal)

14.0 - 0 column down to 4000 (Decel)
14.0 - 750/1000/1250 RPM - 20/30/40 kPa (Idle and just off idle)
14.6 - 2500/3000 RPM - 30/40/50/60 kPa (Cruise)
14.3 - everything in between (Just a tad richer than closed loop)

4500 and higher I'm using the canned AFR which goes from 13.9 to 13.3.

This what my bike likes. I run 260 to 270 (90* days) at cruise (70 - 75) which my bike seems to like.

I'm getting right around 40/41 (highway town mix).

 

I have been pulling timing out using the Log Tuner. I pulled a couple of degrees once in the areas I was getting the knock event in on my logs, but the bike didn't have any power after that so I put it back. I don't hear any pinging while riding, I just see minor events in the logs is all and I don't know if they are false events or real. They are small numbers anyway so I am not really concerned about them. I was more interested in the open loop setup. Why run open loop? What is gained from running open loop? How does it affect mpg? Where are the changes to open loop made in the afr map exactly? Do you just go to 14.2 from 14.6 or is it a gradual change? That is why I was asking about someone posting their AFR map so I could see how and where they made changes. Thanks for the help.

 

What do you mean by a closed loop system? Excuse my lack of knowledge. I can wrench on bikes all day long and fix anything, but since I have never been taught or learned about EFI I'm kind of lost. Once I learn it I will pick it up quick, but never had anyone to teach me. I had it dyno'd because I noticed it was running like a turd. I then replaced all the in tank fuel lines and such and it seems to be running better. I guess I just want to get the most out of my bike via the tune. Not a big fan of just a harley basic ECM flash. What am I looking for as far as AFR goes while cruising? While wot? Around town? I'm trying to keep reading page after page but I'm still reasonably lost.

 

There isn't much scientific going on with my AFR table. It's just what my bike likes. It might like more fuel but this seems to be a good compromise.

 

Thanks, that is what I was wanting to see. Mine is pretty much like FM made it other than I did a lot of richening to stop decal pop in the 20 kpa column.

 

You could take it out of closed loop and richen up the areas it shows knock retard. That's a quick experiment to rule out a lean issue. Try 14.0 and see what happens. But, I would assume if your CLI's aren't going crazy around the same time, or shortly before, the knock happens you're VE's should be good. Another thing to look at is what are you doing when it shows a hit? Are you winding it up going through the gears? Is it right when you get back on the throttle when upshifting? Is it at steady state (kPa and RPM) for a while and then just knocks out of the blue, while still in that steady state? How many other times, in the datalog, have you been in the same scenario and it didn't knock?

I will give you my take on open loop, be it right or wrong.

Why do we have closed loop? Because the EPA says so, plain and simple.

If 14.6 is the greatest thing since sliced bread then why didn't tuners tune a bike to 14.6 BEFORE the closed loop system came around?

Open loop tunes won't change on you. The flipside is a bad tank of gas may alter the way a bike runs for remainder of that tank. Closed loop will help compensate for this. I really don't care if does or not. It takes a couple tanks of gas to really get the AFV's established. I have to fill up again after the FIRST tank is empty so why worry about it. The chances of getting 2 bad tanks of gas in a row are slim to none. I guess I don't buy in to the "bad gas" theory.

CL = lean...plain and simple. Sure you can tweak a CLB to richen it up, but by how much. And then how does that affect the 02 sensors efficiency and longevity? This will probably start a debate so I'll leave it at that.

In my situation the bike runs fine in CL at cruise. Temps are fine. In 6th gear at 2650 RPM's (70 mph) there really isn't any substantial power to be made so long as it doesn't ping or get hot I try to take advantage of the slight fuel savings. It has plenty of air flow to the engine at 70 mph so it's fine. However, at the lower RPM's my bike is a bronco. Between the crappy 02 sensor location/depth and the tall 2.79 gearing, it has much better manners in open loop. Even with many many different timing attempts my bike likes open loop down low and it feels much stronger down there with a tad bit more fuel.

There's nothing wrong with a all out open loop tune. They ran great for years and will continue to for years to come.

Bottom line is this: Some builds just don't like closed loop. Some bikes are qwirky and respond better to open loop with a tad bit more fuel.

As far as making the changes gradual, you could if it makes you feel better. But I have watched the Set AFR on the PV screen and see AFR's between the 14.0 14.3 and 14.6, so the ECM's seems to be weighing in and doing some averaging. I don't feel any transition going from 14.3 OL to when it goes 14.6 CL.

There are die hard CL fans outh there and there are others that run OL and some that run a combination of OL / CL. I'm not a big fan of closed loop. But I do run it in the cruise area because I don't expect much out of the bike, performance wise, in that area.

 

A little timing advance sometimes helps with decel pop too. It's in decel so no real risk of pinging. Maybe a little more timing and less fuel will accomplish the same thing.