Power Vision Information Thread
#4351
05-15-2013, 06:23 PM
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I have just downloaded the latest update for my Power Vision PV1 (Firmware Version: 2.0.2-1233) and when I started to run an Auto Tune about half ways thru the first half of the complete program a new 'Pop Up Pane' appeared.
It stated something like: "If you want the unit to automatically Auto Tune" then it gave you an option of 'Yes' or 'No'. It highly recommended not to answer 'NO' if you don't know what your doing.
Can anyone explain all this to me, PV's website has nothing I can connect to this new Pop Up Panel.
It stated something like: "If you want the unit to automatically Auto Tune" then it gave you an option of 'Yes' or 'No'. It highly recommended not to answer 'NO' if you don't know what your doing.
Can anyone explain all this to me, PV's website has nothing I can connect to this new Pop Up Panel.
You could always email dynojet and ask them to explain. They do ok at that.
#4352
05-15-2013, 07:03 PM
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Here is Dyno Jets reply to my question
John,
Thank you for your inquiry. It was our mistake, we accidently let something that was supposed to be in the Beta version slip though on our latest update. We are going to have a new update on the Web hopefully very soon. This is a feature we are working on for the professional tuners that want to setup the tune the way they want for Auto tuning. This is why there is no information supporting this on the web or in our instructions. For now please just select Yes. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
John,
Thank you for your inquiry. It was our mistake, we accidently let something that was supposed to be in the Beta version slip though on our latest update. We are going to have a new update on the Web hopefully very soon. This is a feature we are working on for the professional tuners that want to setup the tune the way they want for Auto tuning. This is why there is no information supporting this on the web or in our instructions. For now please just select Yes. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
#4353
05-15-2013, 07:15 PM
Road Warrior
Guess I'll be back on this thread for awhile again. As some of you know, I used the PV from the beginning and really got a good tune on my 2008 FLHT using the PV and wideband sensors. I just got another bike - a 2010 FLHXSE with the 110" engine. Added the DUal tune feature to the PV. Guess it is time to check out the new features DJ has added to the PV and try to tune the CVO engine. Will be looking thru the thread for others experience with the 110.
#4355
05-15-2013, 07:51 PM
Hey JD
JD- good to hear you again; and delighted you will be tuning a new machine.
For those who may not know, you have been a wealth of knowledge in terms of both offering effective shorter steps and written with very understandable clarity.... I found your tuning tips very easy to use.
As others have said, that type of documentation is sorely lacking regarding this device.
Good luck; and keep us updated on your findings (as if you wouldn't).
For those who may not know, you have been a wealth of knowledge in terms of both offering effective shorter steps and written with very understandable clarity.... I found your tuning tips very easy to use.
As others have said, that type of documentation is sorely lacking regarding this device.
Good luck; and keep us updated on your findings (as if you wouldn't).
#4356
05-15-2013, 08:25 PM
Platinum Sponsor
Guess I'll be back on this thread for awhile again. As some of you know, I used the PV from the beginning and really got a good tune on my 2008 FLHT using the PV and wideband sensors. I just got another bike - a 2010 FLHXSE with the 110" engine. Added the DUal tune feature to the PV. Guess it is time to check out the new features DJ has added to the PV and try to tune the CVO engine. Will be looking thru the thread for others experience with the 110.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
#4357
05-15-2013, 08:32 PM
well that was interesting.
as recently suggested i tried a short run with idle turned down to 750, or at least i tried as pv wouldnt let me go lower than 800.
this is not something i would want to do very often as it is clear my bike does not like being used that way.
i did get a good number of hits and i could see maybe trying this once more with the new results but i will wait to see how these results feel on the street while not in tuning mode.
i changed my idle to 1000 but if i remember correctly i had been running my idle at 950 for a while.
i seem to recall wurk truk saying he would not have it any lower than 960.
i assume this is for oil reasons but i have to wonder if there are any performance differences between 950/960 and 1000 rpm?
while i was at this i decided to hit some higher rpm areas again and i did notice a couple things along the way.
for example, while checking my logs i noticed i had very little knock (2.5 max) and only in the front this time.
last time i hit some higher areas i had a bit more knock but only in the rear.
perhaps my air flow is better documented than it was a number of runs ago.
would this be the reason why i see less and less knock along the way?
when i first started doing some runs after making some changes to the bike i was getting a lot of knock so i set up pv to deal with that as i did not want to damage anything along the way.
i will continue to do tuning runs as conditions and time allow.... but i am thinking i may soon be ready to start playing with my spark advance a little.
much to learn yet so i look forward to learning any other tips, tricks or advice that will help my kitty purr :-)
as recently suggested i tried a short run with idle turned down to 750, or at least i tried as pv wouldnt let me go lower than 800.
this is not something i would want to do very often as it is clear my bike does not like being used that way.
i did get a good number of hits and i could see maybe trying this once more with the new results but i will wait to see how these results feel on the street while not in tuning mode.
i changed my idle to 1000 but if i remember correctly i had been running my idle at 950 for a while.
i seem to recall wurk truk saying he would not have it any lower than 960.
i assume this is for oil reasons but i have to wonder if there are any performance differences between 950/960 and 1000 rpm?
while i was at this i decided to hit some higher rpm areas again and i did notice a couple things along the way.
for example, while checking my logs i noticed i had very little knock (2.5 max) and only in the front this time.
last time i hit some higher areas i had a bit more knock but only in the rear.
perhaps my air flow is better documented than it was a number of runs ago.
would this be the reason why i see less and less knock along the way?
when i first started doing some runs after making some changes to the bike i was getting a lot of knock so i set up pv to deal with that as i did not want to damage anything along the way.
i will continue to do tuning runs as conditions and time allow.... but i am thinking i may soon be ready to start playing with my spark advance a little.
much to learn yet so i look forward to learning any other tips, tricks or advice that will help my kitty purr :-)
#4358
05-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Massachusetts
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Here is Dyno Jets reply to my question
John,
Thank you for your inquiry. It was our mistake, we accidently let something that was supposed to be in the Beta version slip though on our latest update. We are going to have a new update on the Web hopefully very soon. This is a feature we are working on for the professional tuners that want to setup the tune the way they want for Auto tuning. This is why there is no information supporting this on the web or in our instructions. For now please just select Yes. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
John,
Thank you for your inquiry. It was our mistake, we accidently let something that was supposed to be in the Beta version slip though on our latest update. We are going to have a new update on the Web hopefully very soon. This is a feature we are working on for the professional tuners that want to setup the tune the way they want for Auto tuning. This is why there is no information supporting this on the web or in our instructions. For now please just select Yes. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
#4359
05-15-2013, 09:42 PM
#4360
05-15-2013, 11:09 PM
Road Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
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well that was interesting.
as recently suggested i tried a short run with idle turned down to 750, or at least i tried as pv wouldnt let me go lower than 800.
No need to go to 750. If the PV lets you set the minimum to 800 (in PV settings) then set your idle speed in the map to the same. I haven't been able to set the minimum setting in PV below the default of 900. I tried setting it to 800 but it wants to default back to 900. Another thing I noticed was no hits were being shown in what should be the 750 row. What that means is no VE changes. So after you're done compare the current tune to the prvious tune 750 row to see if it made corrections. If it did you're good. If it didn't just carry the same numbers up from the 1000 row.
this is not something i would want to do very often as it is clear my bike does not like being used that way.
None of them like it. If after the first compare of tunes you don't see any changes in the VE's (not collecting data in 750) just finish your AT runs with your idle at what you normally set it at.
i did get a good number of hits and i could see maybe trying this once more with the new results but i will wait to see how these results feel on the street while not in tuning mode.
I wouldn't rely too much on feel. If your VE's aren't dialed in it will try to correct and start setting up your AFV's. After a tank or two of gas the feel will change, depending on how close, or far off, the VE's were. The point of getting the VE's dialed in, is in part, so the ECM has to make the least amount and smallest corrections. So, forget feel and make AT runs until the VE's are not changing more than 2 or 3%. If you stay persistent you can get them down to a mix of 0, 1, or 2% changes. VE's...timing...and then a final VE run. My advice is let the technology tell you when enough is enough. Save "feel" for when you're at the end and want to experiment. Remember, one aspect of tuning is to get the ECM to have to do as little work as necessary. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just of the belief that you'll be better off letting the technology do it's job of informing you of what's going on. Sometimes, as non-professional do-it-yourself types, we're better off trusting the technology. At least in the beginning stages anyway.
i changed my idle to 1000 but if i remember correctly i had been running my idle at 950 for a while.
i seem to recall wurk truk saying he would not have it any lower than 960.
960 is fine, 950 is fine, 975 is fine, 1000 is fine. Whatever setting gives you the smoothest idle is where I go. They never idle rock solid at the setting anyway. Once you get the VE's squared away play around with your timing at idle and see what is the smoothest, at full operating temps. Most maps have the closed throttle spark in the mid 20's. Just have to play around a little to see if your engine responds favorably to say 25 versus 22, or whatever. Once you get it purring set your main spark tables the same as your closed throttle table. If you can't get a decent idle, spray a little carb cleaner up at your intake seals and make sure there aren't any leaks. Actually everyone should do this BEFORE they make the first AT run, but it's something that doesn't come up very often.
i assume this is for oil reasons but i have to wonder if there are any performance differences between 950/960 and 1000 rpm?
Some would say no. I would say maybe. I like 1000 at idle. Seems to respond quicker dumping the clutch. A TC is never going to sound like a Shovel so trying to chase that sound is useless. But whatever you like best will surely be fine.
while i was at this i decided to hit some higher rpm areas again and i did notice a couple things along the way.
for example, while checking my logs i noticed i had very little knock (2.5 max) and only in the front this time.
last time i hit some higher areas i had a bit more knock but only in the rear.
perhaps my air flow is better documented than it was a number of runs ago.
would this be the reason why i see less and less knock along the way?
Definitely! That's why it's critical to get the VE's dialed in first.
when i first started doing some runs after making some changes to the bike i was getting a lot of knock so i set up pv to deal with that as i did not want to damage anything along the way.
You're fine doing it that way. The PV is pulling 4* when you set up for an AT anyway. All I would say is make notes of which cells are being reduced. When you start working on your timing tables I would leave those cells where they are and start raising the cells that didn't get reduced by the PV. No sense in raising those cells after PV already told you they were pinging and reduced them for you.
i will continue to do tuning runs as conditions and time allow.... but i am thinking i may soon be ready to start playing with my spark advance a little.
much to learn yet so i look forward to learning any other tips, tricks or advice that will help my kitty purr :-)
as recently suggested i tried a short run with idle turned down to 750, or at least i tried as pv wouldnt let me go lower than 800.
No need to go to 750. If the PV lets you set the minimum to 800 (in PV settings) then set your idle speed in the map to the same. I haven't been able to set the minimum setting in PV below the default of 900. I tried setting it to 800 but it wants to default back to 900. Another thing I noticed was no hits were being shown in what should be the 750 row. What that means is no VE changes. So after you're done compare the current tune to the prvious tune 750 row to see if it made corrections. If it did you're good. If it didn't just carry the same numbers up from the 1000 row.
this is not something i would want to do very often as it is clear my bike does not like being used that way.
None of them like it. If after the first compare of tunes you don't see any changes in the VE's (not collecting data in 750) just finish your AT runs with your idle at what you normally set it at.
i did get a good number of hits and i could see maybe trying this once more with the new results but i will wait to see how these results feel on the street while not in tuning mode.
I wouldn't rely too much on feel. If your VE's aren't dialed in it will try to correct and start setting up your AFV's. After a tank or two of gas the feel will change, depending on how close, or far off, the VE's were. The point of getting the VE's dialed in, is in part, so the ECM has to make the least amount and smallest corrections. So, forget feel and make AT runs until the VE's are not changing more than 2 or 3%. If you stay persistent you can get them down to a mix of 0, 1, or 2% changes. VE's...timing...and then a final VE run. My advice is let the technology tell you when enough is enough. Save "feel" for when you're at the end and want to experiment. Remember, one aspect of tuning is to get the ECM to have to do as little work as necessary. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just of the belief that you'll be better off letting the technology do it's job of informing you of what's going on. Sometimes, as non-professional do-it-yourself types, we're better off trusting the technology. At least in the beginning stages anyway.
i changed my idle to 1000 but if i remember correctly i had been running my idle at 950 for a while.
i seem to recall wurk truk saying he would not have it any lower than 960.
960 is fine, 950 is fine, 975 is fine, 1000 is fine. Whatever setting gives you the smoothest idle is where I go. They never idle rock solid at the setting anyway. Once you get the VE's squared away play around with your timing at idle and see what is the smoothest, at full operating temps. Most maps have the closed throttle spark in the mid 20's. Just have to play around a little to see if your engine responds favorably to say 25 versus 22, or whatever. Once you get it purring set your main spark tables the same as your closed throttle table. If you can't get a decent idle, spray a little carb cleaner up at your intake seals and make sure there aren't any leaks. Actually everyone should do this BEFORE they make the first AT run, but it's something that doesn't come up very often.
i assume this is for oil reasons but i have to wonder if there are any performance differences between 950/960 and 1000 rpm?
Some would say no. I would say maybe. I like 1000 at idle. Seems to respond quicker dumping the clutch. A TC is never going to sound like a Shovel so trying to chase that sound is useless. But whatever you like best will surely be fine.
while i was at this i decided to hit some higher rpm areas again and i did notice a couple things along the way.
for example, while checking my logs i noticed i had very little knock (2.5 max) and only in the front this time.
last time i hit some higher areas i had a bit more knock but only in the rear.
perhaps my air flow is better documented than it was a number of runs ago.
would this be the reason why i see less and less knock along the way?
Definitely! That's why it's critical to get the VE's dialed in first.
when i first started doing some runs after making some changes to the bike i was getting a lot of knock so i set up pv to deal with that as i did not want to damage anything along the way.
You're fine doing it that way. The PV is pulling 4* when you set up for an AT anyway. All I would say is make notes of which cells are being reduced. When you start working on your timing tables I would leave those cells where they are and start raising the cells that didn't get reduced by the PV. No sense in raising those cells after PV already told you they were pinging and reduced them for you.
i will continue to do tuning runs as conditions and time allow.... but i am thinking i may soon be ready to start playing with my spark advance a little.
much to learn yet so i look forward to learning any other tips, tricks or advice that will help my kitty purr :-)