yes sir.... i guess i was too hopefull again. but it is what it is. Im getting better. Ill keep playing and see what happens.

 

Steve.... when i updated my tune it only showed me tables that i did not have before. Nothing else changed that i noticed. no yellow triangles or anything....just more tables. You are the first to mention this that i know of.

 

I'm not sure I am following you correctly. The only tune I have ever transfered from the ecm to the pv unit is the stock tune (this is not including saving AT runs or exporting values after AT). What is the process you are using when you load a copy of the tune from the ecm to the PV? Even after doing AT runs the only changes I see are to the VE tables when I compare a pre and post at run. The only thing I can think of is you are displaying stoich value in winpv but your ecm uses af ratio as I noticed there are stoich vales that cannot be represented in afr. Not sure if that makes sense or not but I'm interested to hear what is going on with your unit/ecm so keep us posted. I'm stuck down in LA right now in my cage so I can't experiment with my unit but I'll check it out this afternoon when I get home.

 

Glad to hear you're making progress. I have a 2010 Road King Classic set up pretty much like yours only with Andrews 48 Cams (Fuel Moto head pipe and A/C, Reinhardt mufflers). I've had nothing but good experiences with the PV. Originally set it up with A/C and mufflers only and a Fuel Moto tune. The Fuel Moto tune ran well, but after several tunning runs things kept getting better...smoother and more power.

I added the cams and header and again started with a Fuel Moto tune. Significantly more power and ran pretty well. After making a number of tunning runs and several tunes its really running well. Great power and torque, and really smooth. In my experience things just kept getting better....so I was suprised that you weren't getting similar results...but it sounds like things are going in the right direction now.

I don't use autotune. I log data and process it on my laptop with WinPV and PV Log Tuner so I can see what's going on. Don't know if autotune might be making other changes in the background.

My IAC is set for 140C seems to trip about 285F eng temp as read from the PV. These big motors don't like to idle in traffic (mine is a 96). Even in Spring temps in New England, mine trips at long stop lights or extended idle.

Temp is down from stock at least 15-20 deg F under normal operating conditions.

 

Uncle Chester

whatever tune you have on the EMC you can get off

Load tune
Load Copy of

This will go to the EMC and copy the tune that is on there and then let you save it to the PV and then you can take it and look at it on the PC.

Boston Chris

Are you comparing it to what is on the PV or did you copy that from the EMC to the PV then compare?

 

RE:O2 sensors. If your bike came with the O2s near the heads, that IS where they need to be. If they came with them near the collector (baggers), THAT is where THOSE need to be.

The sensors do NOT read all of the time, they read when the ECM wants to look at them. This is called 'polling' a sensor. With the up near the head designs, a BIG thing to look for is how near the sensor is to a bend in the pipe. AT lower RPM, the gases can completely bypass a sensor because of the fluid dynamics of the gases leaving the pipe. This, up near the head, design is where most troubles come in. The factory positions are NOT optimal at all. If you wish the best sensing possible, then move the bungs a bit closer to the head and point the sensor downwards. Try to aim the bung so that the complete sensor is in the exhaust stream. Angled bungs are NOT whats happening. I have moved bungs.

Now, for the bungs on baggers... they are down near the transmission and here is the WHERE polling comes into play. By the time the gases reach this point in the pipe, there will be numerous combustion cycles already in the pipe behind the ONE pulse in question. If the bungs are moved too far away from fatory, the O2s will be receiving a pulse that is NOT the pulse needed.

So, placement becomes an area one needs to think about. For optimal results, the O2s need to be closer to the engine than 5 diameters of the pipes diameter, from the end of the PIPE. By this... if the pipe is a 2" at the exit, the bungs need to be a MINIMUM of ten inches from the end of the pipe. Mid way, in the collector, is about where the pipe ends. NOT the end of the collector, nor the end of the muffler. The head pipe is whats happening here.

On the other end, polling...... for the front pipe, I have been told by Steve Cole that the furthest forward on can go is the bottom of the brake pedal. Rear pipe... furthest forward will be right in front of the trap door cover of the tranny.

The ONLY time I have personally seen issues with this bagger arrangement is when folks cut out the cat from a stock pipe. The sensor, then, is way less than that 5 daiameters from the pipes end. The hillbilly fix that works is for the folks that cut a window into the cat to remove material. One can weld a pipe into the cavity to extend the rear pipe. That fairly eliminates 'cross talk'.

I have found most later bagger pipes work decently, especially Fullsac pipes. Conversely, most of the pipes for older models have the WRONG position for the full size sensors near the heads. One needs to remember that the stock positions are made to work(?) with the very restrictive mufflers that are stock, also. When swapping to free flow cans, the sensors will not work as well as they did stock.


Except for the 6" references, Dude is 100% correct.

Here is a pic of a rear cylinder of an 09 pipe with the bungs moved on an old D&D Boss pipe. The new position samples way better.



Looks like *** welding (I did that!) HAHA!, but notice the senor is NOW out of the bend. It is no longer in an angled bung, and.... it faces more upwards to help eliminate condensation from inducing "Thermal Shock' to the sensor.

[I bought a TIG welder after this experiment, HAHA!]

 

yes sir.....compare function in the WinPV software. if there is a way to compare on the PV unit it self i dont know how to use it and it would drive my tired eyes nuts trying to see that small screen.

 

Thanks nhrider. i just got back from your area ( had to buy my cheap cigs ) i was also running another auto tune.

I have never tried the log tuner. Im too lazy. AT should ( here we go ) do the same thing. Reading many posts here on the forum many people seem to have good results with log tuner. So far so good with just AT basic.

i cant explain why mine was taking weird turns. i cant seem to figure out what went wrong. Ill blame myself till it comes to light.

I did have a few cells in the 100 MAP colum that were 7%. I was going to call this last run the done deal but now i might run just one more. Everything else was no higher than 3 or 4% and most 1%. figured i would now move on to the timing.

Sounds like you have almost the same setup i am after. My plan was maybe the TW-222 next spring.

 

EITMS temp is set up like that from Fuel Moto to disable it.

Why are you copying current tune to PV over and over? If it was on the PV when you flashed the bike you don't need to copy it again and again. Just drag it off the PV with your computer. It only needs to be on the PV once. The only useful purpose I see for copying the current tune is if you make changes on the road and want to keep those changes. Then copy that tune and drag it to your computer.

As far as changes go, I haven't seen that happen yet. But, I don't use the copy current tune function. If I'm comprehending what you're saying it sounds like you're loading a tune...then retrieving a copy of that same tune from the ECM back into PV...opening it up in WinPV...comparing the tune you loaded to the tune you retrived, and seeing changes that YOU didn't make. If that's correct, I'd be alarmed as well. I don't see any reason this should be happening unless PV is doing something in the background that we don't know about.

I will try it and see what I get. Keep us posted on the response you get from whoever you call. It'll be interesting to see if, in fact, something is being changed and exactly why.

 

What a mess huh. It's seems the boys in drawing room were told to get these things within EPA compliance and didn't put much thought into the final product.

One thing I always wondered, but never asked anyone, is how even a pro-tuner gets around the bung placement. If the bike is tuned with a sniffer up in the head pipe, VE's set up, and then the bike is turned back over to the OEM 02's (in poor positions), it must make for some crazy AFV's. Properly set up VE's being sampled by poorly reading sensors? I guess this is where the GOOD tuners are well worth what they charge.