Exactly what tuning capability do you believe exists in TTS that isn't available in the PowerVision and the accompanying WinPV software? Yes, there are limitations on the PV itself that essentially reduce tuning to the most convenient features that are likely to be used by a rider while on the road. But with the WinPV software nearly every imagineable variable can also be used to make fine-tune adjustments before loading a file back onto the PV for flashing to the bike's ECU.

I would argue that the PV is equally suitable for the very advanced tuner as it is for the novice. If an inexperienced rider wants to only use the tuning capabilities directly on the PV unit itself, then the approach is simplified and complete but limited to the most commonly tuned components. If the user wants to fine tune a map with deep adjustments within the file, then the WinPV software can be used by attaching the PV to a laptop and using WinPV to make those adjustments.

In either case, no laptop ever needs to be taken on the bike to conduct tuning with either the PV or WinPV. Just collect the logging data on the PV while riding and "simple" tune on-the-road with the PV or bring the data back home and "complex" tune using WinPV on a laptop. Best of both worlds if you ask me.

 

After running some logs on the Power Vision I'm seeing a fair amount of knock events in the 2800 RPM range when I roll on the throttle. Is this something that can be tuned out or is it something to worry about?

 

2 approaches:
1) Keep autotuning with lots of variable data under different loads in the region you're having knock events. Check after 3-4 autotunes to see if the knock events have been eliminated.

2) Change your autotune settings to include spark adjustment. The PV can reduce spark based on knock events (however it can only reduce spark adv, if cannot increase spark adv).

My recommendation would be to run 3-4, 20-30minutes autotune runs and then recheck the knock events. If they still exist, then move to step 2.

 

SOmetimes there ARE pluses to having the power of a PC along for the ride. TTS was made for pro tuners and WE fellow member adapted it. PV is made more for the guys that ride. WHY is that so hard to see?

Look at data? HAHA! Yup you sure can gather a bunch on that flash drive in the box, where TTS can save like 30 channels for hours on end. The difference IS the PC. It is ALL give and take.

Quit being an *** anyways, didn't I say the PV was a decent tool? There ARE differences and until YOU have tried out a bunch a different methods, quit doing the 'money effect' thing and think that YOU bought it, it must be the greatest. There is NO greatest, all things have advantages and disadvantages.... even tuners. I have just went thru this myself, until I looked at things logically. I, me, just recently quit being an *** about all of this myself. I was a for REAL *** about it, too.

I was talking about a wild build that one needs to 'sniff' to get it right. NO closed loop at all. WIth TTS, I can still use things LIKE the cam tool, the baro setting, use the timing tools and NEVER touch the VEs using the tuner. SO, yes, on a crazy build, I WOULD go with the TTS. ANd that would be BECAUSE of the PC not the lack of it. Tuning IS data. AT some point, one NEEDS data to tune with. Flash drive does NOT cut it when ease of use isn't the question, but diagnostics are. I was talking to a member that has a DTT wego, etc. He HAS to lug a PC with him for best results.

Lastly, how many bikes, besides your own have YOU tuned with PV? I haven't tuned ANY, (I HAVE played with one, but NOT a complete tune). yet I recommend it extensively. Why? Because I like it and will own one soon. You with YOUR money, will you go in turn and buy a TTS? NO, of course not. You have NOTHING to compare it to. Keep drinking the Jamie Kool Aide. And remember THIS... TTS, Jamie, DJ... ALL of them are out for ONE friggin thing... get in OUR wallets. It is up to US, members here, to try all things and report back. NOT get wedded to an idea or a product and call it 'done'. You own ONE bike and have 'tuned' that one bike. Have you even played around with a TTS? How then can you even know its capabilities. Kool Aide tastes like ***. I have tasted it plenty, no more tho.

Besides... why is this an issue? I LOVE the PV and recommend to almost all members. But when a member comes on with a big build... I get slammed? It IS about the PC in the end. This isn't some little 30 minute ride bike to gather VE tables.

 

If you have already done your auto tuning runs and have your VE's dialed in you can use the log tuner software to tune out the knock events. Just do some data logging runs upload the logs, then open up your tune in the WinPV tuning software check the boxes for front and rear VE's, AF ratio, and fron and rear timing. You then need to save selected values (this will create a .pvv file), after this in the log tuner select the .pvv you just save and whatever log you uploaded, click "calc tune" this will show you all kinds of info. what you will be concerned with is the knock events, you can select to have the program apply the tune (this save another new .pvv file) or you can go into WinPV and manually reduce the timing in the cells that you are having events in. Some of the knock events I had I was able to get rid of by adding a little fuel to, others took timing adjustment. Hope this made sense and answered your question.

 

• Baro correction - nope but that's already built into the bike's ECM so if you're running closed loop why should it be fussed with?
• Spark Gain at idle - yep
• Auto tune timing - yep
• Cam tooth adjustment - nope
• Laptop backback - Nope - no need
• Lockdown of the bike's ECM so that even a dealer can't access it - Nope - that's a unique feature of TTS alone

Not sure what the "money thing" is but I've tuned with the Super Tuner since 2003. With the SEPST since it came out. And with the PV for about 2years. They all do pretty much the same thing with a bike's ECU's variables. A couple twists here and a couple twists there but for the most part there really isn't that much difference in what any of them can do.

You can get equal results with SEPST, TTS or PV. Just comes down to what you're most comfortable using to get solid results. The question is how much is it gonna cost and how difficult is it for the average guy to run. In the future something else will come along and make them all obselete. In the interim, any software that locks up the bike's ECU from being used with any other tuning software (TTS) or requires attaching a laptop to the bike (TTS & SEPST) can see the horizon of obselence not too far in the future.

The PV addresses all but the most exotic build tuning needs in my opinion and I wouldn't go back to a standalone tuner. But that's just the opinion of one guy with a pretty good familiarity with the different tuning products so take it with a grain of salt. Ultimately the marketplace will decide. And I think it already has.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. Running 3 or 4 Autotunes is a good suggestion. I'm really looking to understand the theory on what causes this and what to do about it. If I read this right, reducing timing in the areas they occur is a good start. Adding a bit of fuel is the other option.

What is the difference between Autotune and the log tuner? Are there different scenarios where one is better than the other or are they basically the sane thing?

 

AutoTune basic pulls 4 degrees of timing everywhere so you can't really tune the spark tables. With log tuner you log data to files and use these files to tune using WinPV and log tuner.

 

Sorry for the questions, I'm just getting into this and trying to figure out how it all works. I did an Autotune run starting from my original tune and all it changed was the VE tables. The Spark Advance tables remained the same. The Log Tuner did adjust the spark Advance tables but the changes were very minor and most were <1.0.

Any suggestions on where I could read up on this stuff? I haven't gotten my head wrapped around how all of these variables relate to each other and how they affect things like knock and MPG. This all started cause my MPG is usually around 32 to 35 and that's with 60%+ freeway miles.

 

In Basic mode, autotune will take 4 degrees out across the entire map (both front and rear) PLUS it will place the entire map into closed loop. With these changes Autotune then takes the data from the autotuning ride and adjust the VEs to optimize the performance. Once the VEs have been modified, autotune will put the map's AFRs back to their original settings and also return the spark tables to their original settings.

Before you change your spark settings its best to see if the autotune will eliminate the knock events. Reducing spark generally reduces performance but if the spark is so advanced that it causes a knock event then you'll lose the performance anyway since the knock sensor will reduce the spark advance to prevent the knock event.

What you're seeking in the load areas of the map is optimized VEs first, followed by as much spark advance as the engine will take without creating a knock event.

Use autotune first. After several rides, autotune will adjust the VEs and generally the knock will be eliminated OR if its a significant knock event, you'll need to datalog after the autotuning and then manually reduce the spark in the region where the knock is occurring.

If you started with a suitable PV map for your bike's engine there really should be no need to manually reduce the spark advance unless you live at a particularly high altitude or find yourself running really crappy 89 or less octane fuel.