I'm really trying to understand how to tune my 2013 FLSTN with the PV, but the major problem I'm having is that I really have no idea what all the different tunable values mean, what changing a value one way or another should actually do, what conditions each setting would improve upon, and what percentages are reasonable test values in order to notice a difference.

I've done a lot of reading, but I've yet to find the secret decoder ring that gives me the actual information I need to do this without ignorance. Can someone PLEASE point me in the right direction? I would even settle for a well written guide to using the QuickTune parameters - I have a feeling that's all I really need to work with since all I've done is add a Big Sucker and some V&H Softail Duals. It's kinda frustrating that DynoJet seems to have nothing to offer.

I've autotuned a few different times and gotten pretty poor results, lots of decel popping and there's high rpm shift pop between 1-2, 2-3 and occasionally 3-4. Increasing the percentages for decel and high ve values in QuickTune and applying them to the Autotuned map seem to yield somewhat better results, but I'm really flying blind here. Hoping someone can help me out without having to get a masters degree in ECM tuning to get there.

Thanks in advance.

 

I would first suggest to get a canned map from FuelMoto or DynoJet if you haven't already done so. Your going to get a lot of popping while auto tuning because your AFR is very lean and the DE and AE curves are turned off to collect data. There are way too many options to go into on this thread to teach tuning 101. If and once your running a close map from FM or DJ and you are still getting popping then adjust your DE numbers down by 5% at temperatures greater than 115 til it goes away. You can also adjust your 20kpa AFR column richer to allow more fuel at deceleration. Below is my DE table and my AFR table.

 

On 10/16 in another thread, Fuel Moto stated the following to a similar question: "You have a couple of options for developing your spark tables. If you are using the Auto Tune Pro with the AT module it will populate fuel and spark corrections using either the PV display or with PV Log Tuner software, if you are using Auto Tune Basic the embedded Auto Tune feature on the PV will only populate fuel corrections due to the way it "sets up" the tune, however you can still log with the PV and use the PV Log Tuner software for your timing corrections. __________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA"

Earlier during the beta testing I asked the same question. The answer I received from Dynojet was this:

1. Refine your Fuel / VE requirements and while doing so, ensure the Max Spark Learn is set to 0 (which is the default)
2. Once the fuel side of the equation is nailed down, focus on spark
3. If using AT-Basic, then you’ll need to start with a tune that ADDS at least 4 degrees, if not more to the spark tables (remember, AT-Basic removes 4 degrees of spark as part of the routine, so in order to “get back to you normal spark tables”, you would need to temporarily add 4 degrees…..hope that makes sense).
4. Disable the fuel learning by setting the Max VE Learn to 0
5. Set Max Spark Learn to 10
6. Proceed with AT process
7. Once complete, you’ll need to remove the 4 degrees of timing you added to the tune you started with and adjusted with AT.

Trust me, Jamie's way is easier and more accurate. When I first attempted this the AT did not pick any knock activity up. It only showed during datalogging; and, the log tuner software corrected it.

 

First of all, thank you for trying to help me out - I appreciate it.

I bought the system from FM and they provided a map based on my setup. It really didn't work well so I sent a copy of the map back, plus a log file and a description of what was happening, at what RPM ranges, etc. They sent another back and it was better, but not great.

When autotune and quicktune came out, I used the 2nd map as a starting point for autotune basic. I ran 3 different logs and applied the changes. I also used quicktune to adjust some values in real time to see if I could improve things - mostly in the VE section and that has helped some.

Here's the thing though, until your post, I didn't even know what DE stood for, I still don't know what VE stands for and I have no idea what positive or negative values for those even do or how much value I should be adding in either direction.

So I went hunting for a quicktune guide on Dynojet and FuelMotos websites and found nothing. Someone out there must have something that says: here's a list of the different tunable variables in quicktune, here's what each value effects, here's the increment by which you should try adjusting said variable. Wouldn't that make sense? I mean, if you're going to offer a product, shouldn't you at least provide documentation on how to use it?

And with all due respect, I feel this sub-forum is exactly where we should be offering tuning 101 info, I was surprised that I couldn't find something like what I described above stickied right to the top of the list along with this thread. It seems like the first thing anyone would need to get started.

Again, thanks for your help. And if you can point me in the right direction to a tuning 101 info that I can correlate to the abbreviated terms on the PowerVision
quicktune section, links, quides, product documentation, etc., it would be much appreciated.

 

I feel your pain, I was struggling as well when I got the PV. I just kept reading and re-reading the threads, working within the WinPV software and log tuner. After a while things started to make since, for the most part. I'm at the point in my tune that I feel the VE's are dialed in but now I need to work on the spark advance. I'm not 100% sure on how to approach this, what area of the Spark MAP to start from and how far can I go with the spark. I will just keep searching for information so I don't get myself in trouble.

As for a Tuning 101 that would take someone with experience and the understanding of how each tune item change effects other tune items and engine performance, I feel these people are in the tuning business and we should not expect them to give away their product.

For a listing of most tune items you can go to the Power Vision website and download the WinPV / Log Tuner Detail User Guide which provides an explanation of each tune item.

Sorry I cannot help more than this but I'm just a novice.....

 

I am still working with my Powervision using autotune and WinPV. I find that I can learn a lot more about the changes in fuel and timing if I use WinPv log tuner. Look at your Deltas then look at you old table values and new table values and you can see the changes that the software makes in your tune. Whether adding fuel, subtracting fuel or subtracting spark. You dont have to use the final product with your tune. Its has actually been fun to load different value files and different logs just for the purpose of educating myself as to what this product really does. Any delta values over 1.00 then the tune is lean, anything under 1.00 then rich. For instance my tune has 14.2 in the AFR table. 104 in ve table. After calculating the tune in Log Tuner, The delta is 1.02. The new ve table is 105.57. Indicating that I was running slightly lean in the original tune. 14.22 + or -. I ASSUME the the 1.02 means that I needed to add .02 percent fuel. My spark table has 11.77 at map 80 at 2000 rpm. The Spark Knock is 2.34. The new spark table is 9.43. So the tune took away 2.34 degrees of advance. Now on the spark advance you have to Apply Tune before you can see the new tables. On the VEs you have to Calculate Tune to read the Deltas and see the new tables.Try creating a value file, in WinPv, and tune it with several different logs using Log Tuner and look at the changes it makes.

This is usually the only way that I can learn something, considering I am hard headed, have difficulty listening and a "Hands On" person. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining things once I figure it out, so I hope my explanation was clear enough.

It only takes a couple of minutes to do a tune but the information that you gain is priceless.

Bill

 

The easiest way to get the knowledge you seek is to look at a tune in WinPV. There is a short description of each table, what it does and how to adjust it there in the bottom of the screen. See the pic below. I would suggest that you allow the AutoTune to adjust your VE (volumetric efficiency) table then adjust the AFR (air/fuel ratio) table to add or remove fuel in certain areas. The lower the number in the VE table the less fuel in that area, i.e. the VE table tells the computer how efficient the cylinder is at burning fuel to achieve a known AFR (14.6 in our case - Stoicheometric Value of Typical Unleaded Fuel). Then the ECM (electronic control module) will send the right amount of fuel based on that efficiency number. Once you dial in the VE table, then the ECM know how efficient the bike runs at different cells, then the AFR table can be adjusted to deliver more fuel (more power, cooler engine, etc) or less fuel (better fuel economy). The lower the AFR the more fuel is supplied (opposite of the VE table). Message me and we can talk further some time if you wish. I am no expert by any means but I have read MUCH data and feel I have a decent grasp of the basics.

 

Thanks guys. When I load the current tune into WinPV, I don't even see VE values - below is what I get - how can I edit them in winPV if they don't show up?

 

Go to the top menu bar, click setup, click options, click user level, change user level to pro.

 

Thank you, it's like this!