I think with basic tunning stock o2 sensors we dont always get good data collected. My tunes got worse to i blame my exhaust system. I dont have a good answer but try to use compare feature and see how the tunes are going wrong. I found my VEs were getting really, really low. I looked at a bunch of maps from online and looked at VEs people posted. I realized my tune was going south.

 

Sam

Well done. Everyone has to pay attention to what is going on with the changes. The sensors are collecting the data that is there but sometimes certain exhausts or other components can cause problems. For instance, I posted some time ago that I did my tuning with the Fuel Moto Jackpots and everything went well. I then switched to a very popular name brand exhaust and experience a lot of reversion that caused problems with tuning using the sensors. The second set of pipes allowed quite a bit of air to be "sucked" back up in the pipe so the sensors were getting a reading that was "accurate" but not indicative of what was going on in the engine. My bike is a 2008. Reversion is a problem for bikes around that year due to the head pipes design.

My only reason for posting the above is to say that a tuning device can't make badly designed or mismatched components work well together. What it can do, is give you the data and the means to make changes to better utilize what components you do have. If you see the PV log tuner making changes that just don't make sense or look odd in a certain area then you should ask yourself why? Other factors can influence data and as the old saying goes "garbage in - garbage out".

 

It will improve things if configured right. You may have AFRs set too lean at 20kpa, and that is one area that appears to be hard to tune, or at least has been for me going back to my PC days, even with Auto-Tune installed. In fact, DJ recommends not auto-tuning at all in that area. Some or all of these problems may be due to reversion, as Dennis clearly pointed out, and I would suggest that you go back to the first Goodtune and leave the VE values at 20 kpa alone. Did you see any relatively big changes in Goodtune, like like ".90" or ".95", in the Delta tables? How do you have 20kpa set in the AFR table?

You can manually tune on a selective basis if you want. After you "Configure Tune" in the Log Tuner you have both old VE and new VE tables showing, the latter being the values that will alter the VE tables when you "Apply Tune." This would be the case if you follow the usual procedure.

At that stage you can change the values at 20kpa in the New VE tables back to the old values before you hit "Apply Tune," which would be a matter of just copying them from the old VE tables. When you do that and go through the rest of the procedure (Apply Tune) it will use the old VE values at 20 kpa that you manually altered and will change the other values as per the tuning process. At times I've seen one or two spots that need to be changed and I'll just apply the New VE values in those locations to the VE tables in the tune I started with. IOW, get the new VE values from Log Tuner and manually change only those values in WinPV.

The bike should run strong and smooth, run cool, have no decel popping, and get good gas mileage. That's all. Truthfully, if you have your AFR table set properly for your bike the Log Tuner should put you there after a few tuning runs, and you should be seeing relatively small changes in the Delta tables once your have a good tune. I usually see no more than ±2% change when I make my runs, but I've made quite a few runs over the past few weeks since changing pipes.

 

Indeed. Last summer I was having big problems with the tuner leaning one area beyond 20kpa repetitively with every tuning run, and it was clear to see in the Delta tables. I reported it to DJ and they made some changes to the LT algorithm, which fixed the problem for me. In that particular case it was the math in the Log Tuner, not reversion.

As I mentioned in my last post, you can make the tuning changes manually by changing the values in the New VE tables. If you see an area that is abnormally changing for each tuning run, after you "Configure Tune" just change that one New VE value back to the old and go forth with the tuning procedure.

 

Hey iclick & Just Dennis,

You two seem the most knowledgeable and your contributions on this thread are above and beyond.
Alot of the stuff on this thread goes back and forth and you really have to keep up with it to have any idea what is going on.

I was wondering if there is any chance one of you guys could start a new thread in the Electrical/Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection section called
"Power Vision Tuning For Dummies"

With maybe some definitions and an explanation and pictures of what a tuning map looks like to start with and what you are trying to do to get a tune and a picture of the final tune with an explanation of what you did and why you did it.

I know it's alot to ask, but if you do it would be much appreciated by all us PV novices out there.

 

Well, spent all day tuning today and I am a very happy camper. Doesn't hurt to have a close map from FM to start! I have the basic PV tuning capability. I did ten runs, each about 6 mb average files size. From my TTS experience, I expected the rear cyl. to get most of the VE and timing changes, but oddly enough, it was my front cyl. that needed more fuel (especially in the 3500 rpm row) and some timing taken away. I have no popping on decel, my previously reported surging at about 3500 rpm and 50-60 MAP is gone, and even with all the tuning runs got about 40 mpg. I blended the bottom row of my VE tables, reset the original parameters, and will give it a good test tomorrow. Also, the grid (319245) is great and really enhanced my ability to get good coverage.

One last question I have. I still would like to make sure I have Power Enrichment RPM On/Off set correctly. Currently I am at 4500 ON; 4250 rpm OFF. Does this seem reasonable? Thanks again to all the great contributors on this thread!

TedMan

 

So what if you set the tuning range in the afr to 14.6. check all thew fields you want to monitor then save a PVV file but beforwe you load the tuning map you change the afr to lets say 13.8 across the range you want to tune. Log a tuning run then when you download the log and update the PVV file it will show 14.6 afr. Would this work or am I out of my mind??

 

Hey Jester

Have you looked at the PV tuning basic document I created? Click the link in my signature. It was intended to do much of what you just asked about. If you have suggestions to improve it, I would be happy to incorporate those.

You are correct, there is a lot of information in this thread and it can be hard to dig it out. If you have a specific question or need help, shoot me or one of the other guys a PM and we can help you directly.

 

I have also used the TTS but really like the PV since you don't need a separate PC or a monitor to do the tuning. Sounds like you are in good shape. I really like the grid screen (319245) and was one of the people who worked directly with DJ to get it going. It sets the channels and displays where you are tuning - GReat.

On your question, your PE settings look reasonable. I have mine set to 4500 off - 5000 on, so yours are pretty close to that. Good job on the tuning.

 

If you apply changes from a tuning run to a different base map (pvv) that the one you used to generate the changes you will not get the results you want. I really don't see the point in doing that. after rereading your post...

If you mean that you save the pvv file with 14.6 but flash the bike with 13.8, then you will not get tuning data with narrow O2 sensors since you are not in closed loop. You should always tune with the same map (pvv file) that you use to apply the changes