Hi guys
I just completed my 3 logging rides after my PV install and think I succesfully sent them to Jamie at FM.

My question is what do I do now? I mean I tried to follow Dennis's tutorial
(Thanks Deniis BTW) but I lost him at step 6 Configure PV log tuner software
I noticed he wrote this tutorial last year and am wondering if my version of the PV software is different? I just purchased the PV last month???

anyway,,what do i do now? compare my data logs with the tune that jamie originally gave me??? I just dont know where to go from here,,thanks

I still have some hesitation and surging at about 50 mph and some very minor decel popping

 

i had the same question as you. you have to download the log tuner software from dyno jet
http://www.dynojet.com/newdynojet/do...Power%20Vision
its a seperate program from win pv

 

wow thanks,,I said it before and I'll say it again
poor instructions from both dynojet and fm about this tuner,,,
shouldnt have to go to a forum to get my basic info,,,

I do thank you guys for the info and willingness to share,,i will share what i learn as well,,cheers

 

I'm going to take a shot at explaining the relationship between the AFR, CLB (non-TBW only), and VE tables. I'd like suggestions for making it clearer and for any changes that need to be made. I'll edit as needed and I'm doing this because for me it became clear only after about six months of struggling with the concepts, so I assume others may be having similar problems. My thanks to Dennis and Jamie for being patient and nursing me through the tutorial process. First, some definitions:

Closed-loop: The part of the operating range that uses O2 sensors to more-accurately calibrate AFR's in the areas they can measure. Stock narrow-band sensors can only work in about 2/3 of the range, roughly ≤4500 RPM and ≤85KPA or <50% TP (throttle position). Wideband sensors, which are included with the AT-100 Pro kit, work throughout the operating range and although they can be used for tuning the entire operating range with the PV they cannot be read by the stock ECM or run in closed-loop.

Open loop: Those areas of the operating range which are not in control of the O2 sensors.

VE (Volumetric Efficiency) table: This table is an "airflow model" or "predicted airflow" through the specified cylinder. For example, for a given AFR setting a bike with a 103" engine might have a value of 90 while one with a 96" might be 85 because for the former there is more displacement and thus more airflow. Other factors like AC, cams, headwork, and mufflers also change the airflow characteristics, which is why we must perform tunes on our bikes when changes are made. The ECM has no idea what VE value is correct, and it is up to the tuner to provide the correct value based on the desired AFR in the AFR table and the actual measured AFR.

If you change the VE from 85 to 90 you are basically telling the ECM that the airflow is greater whether it is or not, and it responds by adding more fuel. This is the way you tune for a desired AFR, but isn't a good way to add fuel after the tuning process is completed. The idea is to set VE's in the tuning process based on the values specified in the AFR table. E.g., your VE value is correct if you specify 14.0 at 2500 rpm @ 50KPA in the AFR table and the actual AFR is measured as 14.0. From that point on with the same engine configuration you would change only the value in the AFR table if you want to run a leaner or richer AFR.

O2 sensors: The above explanation for VE is valid for open-loop only, as when the O2 sensors are active and thus running in closed-loop they will override the VE values to achieve the AFR specified:

Most TBW bikes -- .98-1.02 specified in the AFR table will run closed-loop where possible.

Non-TBW bikes -- 14.6 will run closed-loop, adjustable in the Closed-Loop Bias Table.

The stock O2 sensors are basically switches that produce a variable voltage (0-1V) that is sent to the ECM. E.g., if they are set to switch at 14.6:1 (~1.0 Lambda) and they sense the mixture is richer than the value specified, the ECM will make adjustments by leaning the AFR until it matches the specified value.

The WB sensors in the AT-100 Pro kit can read the entire operating range but their expanded range (0-5V) can't be interpreted or processed by the stock ECM and thus can't be used as closed-loop devices. They can only be used to report data to the PV via datalogging, and this data is processed independently by the Log Tuner to create a new tune.

AFR table: The table which allows you to specify the AFR or Lambda value you want to run at a given point in the operating range. Whether the actual AFR is correct or not depends on if the VE value is set correctly in the tuning process. The AFR value also tells the ECM whether to run open-loop or closed-loop.

Closed-Loop Bias table: Only on non-TBW bikes and a few '08 TBW, this table regulates closed-loop AFR. Higher values (up to 798) give a richer AFR.

--------------------------

Mentioned before but worth repeating, in the ECM the AFR table is used to specify the AFR to run at various points in the operating range, as well as to tell the ECM whether to run open-loop or closed-loop. For the moment, let's assume we're running in open-loop mode. Given an optimal tune, the assumption is that the AFR's shown in the table reflect the actual AFR's produced by the values shown in the VE table. The idea is to first set all AFR's to your specs, then tune the bike so that VE's actually produce these AFR's. Once the real AFR measured by an O2 sensor or dyno sniffer matches the specified AFR in the table, you can change the AFR value at any time to alter the actual AFR that is run. Once VE's are dialed in properly for your configuration you wouldn't normally want to change them thereafter unless you make changes to your engine configuration (cams, headwork, displacement, etc.).

For an example of how this works, if I take my current leaner tune that I run at almost all times, which has a variety of AFR's specified from 13.0-14.5, then go into the AFR table and change all AFR values to 13.0, the bike will run 13.0:1 across the board with no changes made to VE's. It's amazing, and I can watch this on the display unit from the wideband O2 sensor "Lambda1" and "Lambda2" parameters that I monitor. Where I would normally have a 14.5 at a given point and the gauge shows Lambda ~.99 while running, if I only change the AFR value at that point to 13.0 it will magically show Lambda ~.89 as the ECM makes the changes mathematically with no O2-sensor feedback from the system.

This is assuming you're running open-loop, which most of you don't do, and if you inject the O2 sensors in the mix they will keep AFRs where you set them in the Closed-loop Bias table--and that range is very limited (approx. 14.4-15.0). For those with Lambda calibrations (most TBW bikes) there is no CLB table and closed-loop AFR is regulated by the Lambda table. E.g., .980 is about 14.4:1 and 1.02 is 15.0:1. It's the same function, just a different approach and with one less table to deal with.

WinPV: The AFR table values can be altered in whatever PVT tune file is open.

Log Tuner (PV Tune): Pulls the AFR table from WinPV using a value file (PVV). Other required tables are VE (front and rear) and Spark Advance (front and rear), five tables in all. The AFR table cannot be changed from within the Log Tuner.

 

DJ makes some very good products, but IMO their efforts to document their operation is not top-tier.

 

Since getting a correct tune might take several log runs and time. Do y'all have a different map for just riding between tune runs. Do you load your log runs to both tuning map and riding map, or am i missing something?

 

I started with a close tune acquired by importing my old PCV map, and have been tweaking it ever since through a few minor hardware changes. When I make a tuning run I just run that map until I do the next run. I would think in most cases you'd start with the closest tune you have and work with that, making it unnecessary to run another one in the interim.

 

I would. When using the stock o2 sensors to collect data you want to expand your closed loop area of the map. This is making it leaner than it should be in moderate and heavier load areas. Easy enough to have a second map with correct afr or lambda tables to just ride the bike.

 

The SERT tuner guide mentions putting all cells in a flat AFR for advanced tuning. That's what Dennis' original doc also said. At any rate, this doc is worth a reading and keep for reference. It may be for the SERT but it covers all the basics and advanced topics. There's some good info in there.

iClick, on your explanation, I think it covers it all. The only thing I think we need to solidify is the advanced tuning method. Like I mentioned above, I have 2 sources that say to use a flat AFR table to get the VEs mapped out for your engine combo. Then when finished, reset the AFR to whatever you want. Since the VEs will be accurate, it will calculate using MAP, ET, TP and VEs to try and get to the demanded AFR. I think the methodology behind going flat on the advanced tuning AFR table is for safety reasons. Invariably you tend to put the bike under heavy loads trying to hit all the cells to get the VEs set. There is a possibility to get real lean if using a table that is setup for good mileage. With it flat (at 13.2 for example) you'll be pretty well guaranteed not to get a real lean condition while tuning. I am open to correction, but that is my theory.

 

What you said! I agree. Once the VEs are set for your combination, then make the other changes you want or need. There is a lot of good discussion going on and a lot more folks are getting very knowledgeable about the PV. That helps us all.

Note: If anyone wants a basic guide to the PV, click the link in my signature. That should get you started. As others have said, DJs makes some great tuners but their documentation is lacking.