I'm running leaner (14.6 at cruise, 14.0 at idle) and have no cooling issues except in the worst summer traffic. I've also adopted your procedure of creating a second map by leaving VE's alone, then changing the AFR Table (Lambda for TBW) to 13.0 across-the-board for those times when I need extra engine cooling. So far in a year's time I haven't had to use it, but it's there if needed.

FWIW, I did some tests when I had the PCV-AT installed with a hardware switch. The base map was set to 13.5 throughout and AT (learning mode) set lean in the cruise range as described above. I could switch between the two modes on-the-fly, and I didn't see much difference while cruising on the backroads in summer months--about 5-7° ET (FCHT). That leads me to believe that a richer map or tune has only marginal effects on cooling, and that an oil cooler and possibly an engine fan (HD "parade" fan, LeNale, etc.) are more effective ways to combat excessive heat. I personally think an oil cooler is a necessity on all TC engines, except maybe in very cool climates.

 

Trying to read through all these posts and trying to understand it is really getting me depressed.

I think I need to start with the basics and work my way up to the more advanced stuff you guys are talking about.

Does anyone know of a good book or video specifically on the subject of motorcycle EFI tuning?

 

Don't be depressed, just start with the learning process whenever you're ready. A general description of each ECM table is available by displaying it in WinPV. That should help, and asking questions here to fill the gaps is another resource. Having a general knowledge of tuning fundamentals is essential, and perhaps someone can offer a tutorial on-line or in book form for this.

 

It kinda feels like I got all this high performance equiptment to get the most out of my V-twin but all I have is the OEM Owners Manual to figure out how to do it!
Fuel Moto or DynoJet should really help out on this matter.

I sent them a request on it. Here it is:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/fuel-...available.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelmoto
Power Vision Log Tuner is now available!

The Power Vision Log Tuner application allows users to fine tune their calibration with or without a dyno. It utilizes the Power Vision unit as a powerful data logging device along with an easy to use software application to create your tune. The PV Log Tuner software uses your logs and PV value files to create corrected VE and Spark tables based on O2 sensor and knock retard events. The Power Vision log tuner software is free and incorporates two powerful tuning platforms:

Power Vision Log Tuner Basic - uses the factory O2 sensors

Power Vision Log Tuner Pro - uses the Dynojet Dual channel Auto Tune module with Bosch Wideband sensors

We will be putting together a video tutorial as well as some additional tips and pointers for using this excellent tuning tool next week. We have been using the Basic and Pro applications extensively and can assist users with any questions that come up along the way.
More to come...

Hey Guys,
Did you ever make that tuning tutorial video?
I bought the PV and Autotune from you a month or two ago and use the basic tune you gave me for my bike. I want to hook up the Auto tune and use the PV to its full potential but I am not a tuner and need some video to show me exactly how to do it.

I read the tutorials and never saw anything on how you should ride the bike while data logging either. So I can hit the most cells in the VE tables in a tuning run. Like should I run it to redline through most of the gears. Go uphill in higher gears and lower speed.

It would be awsome if you had a video or seperate videos of someone doing this from the initial startup to doing a tuning run or runs. Then how to put it all together on the software and make a custom tune and then loading their new custom tune to the bike.
Basically a start to finish video.

It would probably save you alot of phone time with people with all kinds of basic tuning questions. In my experience most people learn alot quicker with videos than written material and therefore wouldn't have to take up your time with simple questions. I think it would be more convieniant for all of us. We could just buy the tuner, install it, watch the video, then take it out for a couple of tuning runs, and program in the new tune all by ourselves with the confidence that we understand the whole process.







Maybe if the rest of us in the same boat could do the same and ask for some real guide, they will make something to help us non tuners.

The squeeky wheel gets the oil.

 

I didnt change ve, I changed my afr by richening it up.5 all the way through the 20 kpa column of my map.
And yes you are right about the idle, I dont know why I changed that, and didnt realize til thinking about it today that it was stupid to not realize that that low of rpm's would have nothing to do with decel popping. But.........this is my first actual efi tuning experience and im learning as I go. Thanx for the input, Ill take all the help I can get.

 

Request for a video, etc to teach how to tune a bike might be a bit much. I have read all the post and think that for basic tuning, the contributor's on here have given more info and in a pretty clear form that should enable most folks to work with the PV and tune their bike. It helps if you know how to tune a carb.

The folks that spring for the AT module and go with wide band O2s have the best set up. I used the PC-V with the AT module on an 11 when it seemed no one had a map. Big time issues with running the engine above 4K rpm. Everyone (DJ and HD) was telling me I was flaming out due to running lean. Watch the O2 sensors when I ran the rpms up to 4K and above and watch the engine go too rich. Took the map closest to my setup and at the 4K rpm range on up and 0 - 100 tps....set the map to -1. That allowed the software to tune to what the engine wanted.

Point of the story.....PV is a much better tool and with the AT module will allow tuning of the whole range of the map. Just ride like you normally do and don't be in a hurry to get it done. Eventually, over time, you will hit most, if not all the cells. When I did it, I rode from TX to VA. I made it a habit during the tuning runs, to roll the throttle on to WOT and run the rpms to 5k+ when accelerating on the on ramps. Two days of riding resulted in the perfect tune for the bike...everywhere on the map.

The other point is the PV is an outstanding tool to tune your bike....even with the NB O2s. You really don't have a problem until you start working major mods on the bike....then finding a starting map may be a problem.

But, given the work that Fuel Moto does.....and the support they give, if you buy the PV from them....they probably would be an excellent source of a starting map ....no matter the mods to the engine.

When I was having problems with the PC-V, even though I didn't buy the unit from them, they sent a starting map for my 11 SG with 255 cams. At that time...DJ didn't have one and the dealer was saying even HD didn't have one.

 

The higher temps you are seeing are a result of the decreased airflow when you stop but you can enrich as you suggest to achieve some cooling. As a matter of fact 13.8 is exactly what I have at 30kpa 1000rpm. :-)

 

I found a 15 deg difference in ET and 4mpg difference in fuel mileage between my 13.8 and "stock" AFR tune. And the 13.8 really pulled off out of corners. I used the smoothing function for the AFR, VE and Spark tables. I did not like the ragged looking map with the various steps that I entered into the tune.

I also am using two diverse spark tables with the four AFR tables. I am more aggressive with the richer AFR tables. Possibly a good reason for better corner acceleration.

I had a bad experience in Oklahoma City last summer. Ambient temperature of 110 degrees resulted in an ET of over 300 degs at 60 mph. Now I have a 13.8 to install. I really do not want to revisit OKC to judge result but it is there if I need it. PV is much more than I expected. The good news is that there is only room for six tunes or I would have more tunes to match the space available. I keep a "tuning tune" loaded if I want to use it while out on a trip.

 

Before I got my PV I had really high ET. Went out to Sturgis and riding the Badlands during 110 degrees my engine temps were around 300. Got the PV and my temps went down to 240. But just to be safe I to went with 2 maps in case I get somewhere were the outside temps get high. Never had to use the other map, but it is there. Also put in a map for low octane fuel. Just to get bye until I can put in 90 or better. Nice to have available when needed. When out to Sturgis there were places that only had 85-87 octane. The PV really is a great tool to have, even if you do not make any changes. It is good to use to monitor your engine and how it is running.

 

The MPG sounds about right by my experience, but ET is another matter. I ran mine for a while at 13.0 last summer and didn't see any noticeable difference, but like I said earlier I did see small changes when I had the PCV with a map switch with AFRs at 13.5:1. The difference is that the PCV was a matter of switching between two maps on the fly, while with the PV involved using one tune or the other on different days. The former is a more accurate test, IMO, as I could watch the ET on the LCD-200 display unit that I had at the time. I would consider it a more accurate test than the one or two runs I did last summer with the PV.

This bike just runs exceptionally cool for some reason, and at highway speeds usually stays at around 225-235° in typical 95° summer temps. Sometimes in winter riding (50-60°) it barely peaks at 200°. This is while running my mostly stock (lean) AFR setup, and the richer tune may make it run a few degrees cooler for ET, but no visible change in oil temperature. It really doesn't make much sense, as the 255 cams should make the bike run a bit hotter than stock since CCP is higher. I haven't seen it, though.

I also didn't notice any or much difference in response or part-throttle performance with it set richer

I didn't change spark advance with the richer tune, and you're right that this could have an impact. OTOH, that tune is for cooling in emergency situations, not for normal running. I have no doubt that I could pull more throttle response out by running 13.8:1 and bumping the timing to match, but I value MPG more and I have ample response now.

Wow, I'd hate to think what it's running in traffic under those conditions. It doesn't ever get that hot here in S. LA, but 100° is getting to be commonplace in July and August. I don't make long rides in those conditions unless necessary, so I don't have much data to report.

I'm sticking to two tunes for the time being, as I have yet to resort to even loading the second richer tune in the year since installing the PV. Besides, it doesn't seem to make much difference here. This bike with the lean tune, 255 cams, and Jackpots runs exceptionally well with no flat-spots or other quirks in its performance--and almost always maintains sane ETs and OTs. I can't say that I have even a minor complaint at this point in time.