Power Vision Information Thread
#1791
Couple of questions.
For tuning in closed loop I have my lambda set at 0.981 in cells from 20-80 Kpa, 750-4000 RPM. I have made numerous tuning runs at my normal driving style varying speed and rpm’s, my VE deltas are 1 or less, is this close enough? Yesterday I noticed when stopped at a long traffic light my ET got to 302F, just before this at 70 mph I saw 225F. I assume this is due to the Lambda/AFR being too high. Looking at the PV at idle I was getting hits at 30Kpa and 1000rpm.
So if my VE’s are GTG, I would like to richen it up for more power outside the cruise range and cooling at idle. For fuel mileage , I was thinking of keeping lambda at 0.981 in the 2500-3000rpm range, for power, changing lambda in 20-80Kpa and 750-2250 RPM range to 0.959 (14.1), does this make sense? At idle, should I set the cell 30Kpa and 1000rpm to something like 0.939 (13.8) to help with cooling?
Thanks in advance…….
For tuning in closed loop I have my lambda set at 0.981 in cells from 20-80 Kpa, 750-4000 RPM. I have made numerous tuning runs at my normal driving style varying speed and rpm’s, my VE deltas are 1 or less, is this close enough? Yesterday I noticed when stopped at a long traffic light my ET got to 302F, just before this at 70 mph I saw 225F. I assume this is due to the Lambda/AFR being too high. Looking at the PV at idle I was getting hits at 30Kpa and 1000rpm.
So if my VE’s are GTG, I would like to richen it up for more power outside the cruise range and cooling at idle. For fuel mileage , I was thinking of keeping lambda at 0.981 in the 2500-3000rpm range, for power, changing lambda in 20-80Kpa and 750-2250 RPM range to 0.959 (14.1), does this make sense? At idle, should I set the cell 30Kpa and 1000rpm to something like 0.939 (13.8) to help with cooling?
Thanks in advance…….
But if you think it's too lean at idle, I would just bump the VE's in those cells, rather than changing the AFRs. When the PV first came out, we did not have Log Tuning capabilities yet. So all of my editing was with the AFRs. But now that we have the Log Tuner, I do almost all my edits to the VE tables.
But as long as you back-up your files, you can try anything! If it doesn't run better, go back to what works!
#1792
A friend has a '12 Dyna Switchback and it is EITMS capable, although isn't turned on by default. It can be done with the PV, of course.
#1793
I was over in Gatlinburg Tn last summer stuck in bumber to bumper traffic through town and got some really high ET. We finally parked for a bit and then managed to escape. I don't want to go through that again. I know this isn't uncommon. A couple of questions regarding possible ways to reduce the heat experienced at low speeds. My stock Dyna tune has EITMS set to 1. Does this have any impact on AFR calcs since the Dynas don't actually have the EITMS and should I set it to 0? TTS has some pretty comprehensive documentaion on using their system. One of their suggestions is to add some timing advance to the idle region. They're saying it can have a significant impact on heat build-up. Has anyone here tried that and have you had success with it? How much advance did you add and in what ranges?
I used a map switch on the PCV which allowed me to toggle between a lean and rich map on the fly, but of course you can't do this with the PV. What I did that's almost as easy and just as effective is to load two maps on the PV, both with identical characteristics (VE, spark, etc.), but with the AFR/Lambda values altered. Mine is non-TBW that uses AFR's, which I've set to 13.0 across the board. For TBW you would set to .89 Lambda. This isn't a magic number and is just a stab at an AFR that would be rich enough to make some difference in cooling.
If you have TBW and have stock NB O2 sensors in line, setting Lambda values below .98 it will force it to run in open-loop mode. Thus, just use your normal tune and set all Lambda values to .89, which will force it to run ~13.0 AFR across the entire operating range. Save that tune to another filename and load both tunes (normal and rich) into the PV. When the going gets hot, pull over to the shoulder and flash the richer tune until you get moving again.
In my experience a richer AFR works to some degree, but to really get control of engine temperatures the most effective way is to install an oil cooler and/or one of the aftermarket parade fans (HD, LeNale, etc.). I have an oil cooler only and rarely see ET's hot enough to trigger EITMS (290° on this bike, although I don't have it enabled).
Last edited by iclick; 02-26-2012 at 12:00 AM.
#1794
O2 sensors were first used in '06 Dynas and '07 for the touring family. I'm not sure about Softails but I believe V-Rods had none until later.
#1795
Yes, slight decel popping can be corrected adjusting DE. To increase fuel delivered, reduce the value. Reduce it by 20% or so and see if it makes a difference. If it gets worse go the other way.
If it is stubborn and can't be corrected by adjusting the DE, you can adjust the 20KPA column of the AFR table. Normally, decel popping is caused by a lean condition so try enriching the 20 kpa column by up to 1 AFR above the 30 kpa column at the affected RPM. So if it is 14.6 at 2000 RPM and below in the 30 kpa column, set the AFR to something like 13.8 in the 20kpa column.
If it is stubborn and can't be corrected by adjusting the DE, you can adjust the 20KPA column of the AFR table. Normally, decel popping is caused by a lean condition so try enriching the 20 kpa column by up to 1 AFR above the 30 kpa column at the affected RPM. So if it is 14.6 at 2000 RPM and below in the 30 kpa column, set the AFR to something like 13.8 in the 20kpa column.
#1797
Increased the fuel in the 20kpa by.5 in every rpm range. Totally got rid of all popping. Thanx for the tip guys. I dont think I needed to richen it up that much, smells really gassy at idle. I figure a little rich at idle will be great, especially when I get caught at long lights on a 105 degree day. But might be a little too rich. Might lean it back to .3 richer than where I started. Just a little fine tuning is all it needs.
#1798
Steevo, thanks for the explanation.
If I understand what you are saying, you suggest changing the VE’s to increase fuel. But if you are in Closed Loop wouldn’t the narrow band O2 sensors indicate it is too rich and lean it out?
Also, how much of a change to the VE’s affects fuel delivery? As an example, if I wanted to increase fuel delivery to mimic a Lambda value of 0.981 to 0.890 (AFR of 14.4 to 14.3) how much would I bump up the VE in each cell?
Thanks for your input and patience……
If I understand what you are saying, you suggest changing the VE’s to increase fuel. But if you are in Closed Loop wouldn’t the narrow band O2 sensors indicate it is too rich and lean it out?
Also, how much of a change to the VE’s affects fuel delivery? As an example, if I wanted to increase fuel delivery to mimic a Lambda value of 0.981 to 0.890 (AFR of 14.4 to 14.3) how much would I bump up the VE in each cell?
Thanks for your input and patience……
#1799
Steevo, thanks for the explanation.
If I understand what you are saying, you suggest changing the VE’s to increase fuel. But if you are in Closed Loop wouldn’t the narrow band O2 sensors indicate it is too rich and lean it out?
Also, how much of a change to the VE’s affects fuel delivery? As an example, if I wanted to increase fuel delivery to mimic a Lambda value of 0.981 to 0.890 (AFR of 14.4 to 14.3) how much would I bump up the VE in each cell?
Thanks for your input and patience……
If I understand what you are saying, you suggest changing the VE’s to increase fuel. But if you are in Closed Loop wouldn’t the narrow band O2 sensors indicate it is too rich and lean it out?
Also, how much of a change to the VE’s affects fuel delivery? As an example, if I wanted to increase fuel delivery to mimic a Lambda value of 0.981 to 0.890 (AFR of 14.4 to 14.3) how much would I bump up the VE in each cell?
Thanks for your input and patience……
Last edited by Linville Lion; 02-27-2012 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Clarification
#1800
Increased the fuel in the 20kpa by.5 in every rpm range. Totally got rid of all popping. Thanx for the tip guys. I dont think I needed to richen it up that much, smells really gassy at idle. I figure a little rich at idle will be great, especially when I get caught at long lights on a 105 degree day. But might be a little too rich. Might lean it back to .3 richer than where I started. Just a little fine tuning is all it needs.
In fact, as per Linville Lions' procedure, instead of altering VE's I would have changed the Lambda table to richen the AFR's. The idea is to get the Lambda table and VE's in sync--i.e., a match with real-time AFR's--then make changes to Lambda values to get your AFR's where you want them.