I see. By having disabled closed loop and the O2 sensors you have also disabled Adaptive Fuelling though. So the bike will no longer adjust for changes in conditions and fuel. The values you have in your AFR table won't be reflected in reality except for the exact conditions when you last used the O2 sensors i.e. when you did the Smart Tune.

You could have the best of both by having a closed-loop area between, say, 30 and 60kPa and from 1125 to 3000 rpm. You could tweak the CLB tables to mimic what you have in your current map.

This would give you the same resulting table as you already have and you'd re-enable adaptive fuelling so the bike would better cope with changing conditions and variations in fuel (E5, E10, gasoline, high octane...).

 

Make sure your plugs are properly connected inside the rubber boot. I chased these phantom events for ages and finally realised the connector inside the boot never connected properly. Symptom was that the knock events happened always with fast blips of throttle.

 

So that everybody knows, there are hundreds and hundreds of flaming posts in other forums on closed vs open. Hope we are not startin that in this megathread.
Dyno tuners leave almost always bikes completely open loop as then it will stay as tuned and they can have their back. Gas quality will then affect afr/lambda but as they typically set afr around 13.5 it does not harm much anything (assuming they adjust spark also). This tune is for max perforformance and rideability.
Home tuners with SEPST typically set the cruising part of the map to closed loop (enforcing leanish mixture and not max performance) and the wot/high rpm part open loop with rich mixture optimising both performance and mileage. The challenge with this approach is that once part of the map is in closed loop, the adaptive fuel value (afv) may affect also the open loop areas, depending on the cal. How much this happens and where is not public information and never posted to internet afaik. Also afaik, the o2 sensors will not stay accurate forever and as such, are just another component that may break and ruin the engine.

Pick your poison.

 

I'm satisfied with my results. I'm working on developing a more aggressive timing table and then I plan to get it on a Dyno to see what I'm getting.

 

Agreed. Running open loop when you could be running closed is stupid, and if you are running open loop in the cruising range because the AFR is too rich, then you are just throwing fuel away. But some people can't be taught, and so if they are happy with the results they are getting, then more power to them.

 

Why is it stupid? I have a very good map, the engine runs cool, no popping, and performs well. Mileage is about 42 - 43 but I ride it kinda hard.

 

As Foxster said; you won't be achieving the AFRs you tuned to because the conditions (fuel, temperature, altitude) won't be the same as when you tuned. If you had some closed loop in there, then the ECM would be able to account for these variables and get closed to the tune you wanted.

But if you're happy, do what you want. As far as I'm concerned, I'm only posting this stuff so that others are aware that there is some benefit in making use of the technology they have available to them, rather than just turning it off. If you don't want to do that, then fine. I won't lose sleep over it.

 

Well after logging 630 miles 2up thru Ohio, WV & KY over the weekend with just the 044AA0ooo3 base map(BTW I averaged 43.84 mph)

This morning I did 3 half hr Smart Tune runs and combined them to the Smart Tune VE tables and Updated the VE and saved the Map... Went to the AFR and adjusted it to resemble HarleyTuners table, (but left my Closed Loop area at 14.3 or .977),,, saved the map and re-flashed the ECM... Went out for a ride and I have my Torqie 103" back with this 2into1 pipe... no pop when upshifting, no decel popping, just a slight rumble around 1600-1800rpm... I can live with this...

I also noticed that I was able to get a hell of a lot more Cells registered during the Smart Tune runs than I was ever able to using my SE Street Performance Tuner,,, strange.

 

some people can't be taught?
stupid?

so because I don't necessarily agree (I don't disagree with you but certainly not in 100% agreement with you) with your thought process I'm stupid and can't be taught? That's quite the arrogant and impetuous statement to make IMO

how about this.. prior to 2006 when o2 sensors were introduced, where exactly do you think your bike was running closed loop? My point is open loop has it's time and place to be used.

there are thousands of people out there that run their bikes in open loop mode and just because they don't agree with your train of though on this doesn't mean they or their thought process is stupid or wrong.

I too don't want to see this turn into a BS thread about what's best.. Just understand that each has it's pros and cons and it's up to the owner of the bike, the build, and most importantly a qualified tuner if involved, to make that decision. I run closed loop because well that's where my favorite tuning device likes to be used.

To each his own.

 

I find that most of the timing maps are already pretty aggressive. I have large areas that I had to remove 11 or 12 * to keep it from pinging. As I said earlier these drops didn't seem to affect performance negatively and may have even improved it. I don't remember where but there is a youtube video showing a dyno tune being done. After it was completed they show what needs to be done if it pings, they dropped whole columns from 70 kpa to 100kpa 3 degrees and retested it and it increased the HP from where they had called it good.
With the crappy gas we get these days it seems that it's hard to keep it from pinging, and I often wonder how many are just ignoring it because they don't know better. You'll probably be hearing them singing the blues in a year or two when their pistons get holes in them or their valves come apart.
Overall I think it sucks because my 1988 FXRT never pinged even on 85 octane regular and it was as quick as my 2012 FLTRU.
Anyway here is the difference between where my pinging stopped and the original file, 044SDF004-01. Negative numbers are where I decreased timing