Changing the subject....

How do I cure a start up flare. Either cold or warm it cranks fine, revs to 2200 for 2 seconds then settles down to normal. Would I change the cranking fuel table or IAC steps?

Idles nice, just that start up flare.

It started recently and reflashed the tune back in and still happens.

 

Let's go back and allow me to tell you guys why this is a worry. Most of you try to tune or do tune, so you should 'get' this.

Delphi ECMs. I used to have a friend that worked on the car side developing tunes from before they incorporated MAF sensors... same as our bikes... speed density without MAF.

The car side NEVER allowed the AFVs to modify the open loop areas to a leaner state. AFVs could only adjust that tad bit richer. Our bikes, OTOH will... it's crazy, I know... allow AFVs to correct open loop to a condition that is leaner than the look up table from the VEs. To me, that is one HUGE reason to always dial in the VEs and NOT depend upon the AFVs to fix things.

Peg20, didn't you EVER wonder the WHY folks that actually own dynos and tune for a living keep questioning you? It's because you dig up worthless info from 06-09 on our bikes. It has been a LONG way from then. It is 2014, and some of us have learned a ton on how this all works together instead of depending on OTHERS to inform you.

I do not know where in the UK you are located. I DO feel you keep trying to justify making changes withOUT tuning. Tough luck, this has been proven wrong time and time again. Also, in the UK, is a dude that goes by the name Boz. He owns Powerglides and is an excellent tuner who uses direct link tuning software.

Call HIM and ask about running a bike with a different exhaust and no tune.

http://www.powerglides.co.uk/

#1. There is no MAF on our bikes and ANY info from the car world does not count.
#2 and amount of adjustment available needs to be cut in half, because 50% of that adjustment is for the aforementioned ability to drive a bike to the lean side using AFVS.
#3. NOT buying a tuning device or having a dyno tune is a mark of someone too cheap to pay the basic Harley Tax on all of our bikes. $20kUS bike ... but won't pay $500 for a flash tuner? C'Mon.
#4.. even WITH a MAF sensor, most folks tune their cars once a Stage 1 is complete. Just a smart way to do things.
#5. I do NOT agree with the bike tuner business plan... sell every owner his/hers own tuner, because car guys do NOT have to do this. HP Tuners; LSEdit, etc are a simple one piece of software and done. I used LSEdit for my 08 Z06, for example.

.....
There is some good reading on the net that discusses the wight of the air-vs- how much fuel is required for optimum HP. (Think Aircraft). Why depend upon 'learned' values when we now have the tools to accurately measure the VEs?

TTS (MY pick); Power Vision; and SEPST are simply great tools for the DIY crowd. If one were to truly apply oneself... obtaining a decent tune is easily done. Paying attention... one can obtain a good tune using no more than DIY methods, but one needs some more expensive tools.

And... depending upon AFVs do NOTHING to help address timing, starting, etc issues.

Go ride a bike Boz has tuned so that you can FEEL the true differences. Until you have done so, all you are doing is saying half truths based upon a scale of one bike to your own butt Dyno. There is NOTHING scientific about this. SOme of those that have tuned a myriad of bikes sees this time and time again... folks single bike butt dynos do not work so well.

Using multiple bikes with multiple changes... one needs a method to tune that is reliable and repeatable. WE 'sniff' the exhaust either for left over or lack of oxygen, or use a five gas exhaust analyzers to tune with.

I am NOT on here to try to get money from members, etc. I am here to try to teach.

Bottom line... it is way to easy to overcome the abilities of the AFVs to correct the fuel delivery into an engine using Speed density without a MAF sensor. Anthing less than figuring out the true VEs being used by an engine is a band aid at best, and these 'less than tuning' methods can give a huge false sense of security.

Peg20... there IS a reason that Pro and Semi Pro tuners don't agree with you and I invite you to dig further in your quest for information. Boz is a really friendly kind of guy, BTW. I tune using Direct Link at times and have called or written Boz and have always obtained top flight info from him!

 

I would look at timing before I looked elsewhere. Look at your main timing tables. Change the main spark tables to 'match' and make all the munbers the same... like 22* or whatever advance the same 22*. Do this in the 20-30-40 tables from 750 to 1500 rpms. THEN... go to closed throttle tables and change the table from 1000rpm to 1500 rpm to match. I will 'match' from 0 temp to 32 celcius. I leave the highest temp alone and also do NOT change things above the 2000 rpm row.

Doing this will make the bike QUIT leaping around to different timing as it warms up. CHanging timing is the major reason for cold start surging.

Once this is all done... then work some more tables if need be.

 

You know firstly I would say this "part" of the www forum world is one of my favourite places to learn from, I have had five Harley's, ( one evo sporty,one evo BT and three EFI BT ) my son also now has a late sporty. I am a true amateur at EFI tuning.

Two of my BT have been dealer tuned, one a HD stage 1 flash that actually ran pretty well, and a 2012 dyna that was dealer tuned with the direct link software and came with a USB stick "key", to be honest this was the worst running Efi HD I have had, I lived with it but it never impressed me, and was taken back by Harley after repeated brake issues with ABS also and a very generous deal offered on my current Fatty, for which I am still thankful.

Thanks for the info you ALL share, Harley tuner, peg20, foxster and Wurk particularly, you have all helped me go from stock to xied leads ( very good for the price ) to having my DIY stage 1 fatty running just about as good as I can perceive it could using SEPST, I am sure some of you could improve it a bit on a dyno sheet.
This is a DIY forum so I want to do just that, do it myself.
What I would like to read is all the knowledge you can all share with me and others without any knocking of each other
Thanks again to all of you, Dave

 

Thanks, Wurk. The front and rear spark tables are as follows for 15, 20, 30 and 40 MAP:

750-1000: 24
1125 - 1250: 25
1500: 26

Should I just change the all to 24?

Also, not sure where the "Closed Throttle Tables" are in SEPRO. Is this a TTS only thing?

Appreciate it.

I think I found my own answer. Closed Throttle tables, Crank to run and other tables are not available in SEPRO, unlike TTS.

 

I have a 2010 FLSTC this past spring I had the SE Pro Stage 4 103 kit installed, it includes CNC Ported Heads, SE 259E Cams, kept the stock throttle body, Big Bore Cylinders, also did Woods Tappets, ACR, SE Heavy Breather and V&H 2 into 1 exhaust. Any suggestions on a good map to download for the SE Pro Super tuner?

 

Not certain on that exact setup but 176SAC03 might be a good starting point.

 

thank you

 

Hey grillfish, were you able to fix this? If not, check if you get error codes, maybe your throttle flap positioning is out of sync. I got similar a while ago as i messed around with the flap manually

 

I have a 2011 Electra Limited with 103ci. It is stock except the cat has been removed, Rinehart 4" slipons and high flow air cleaner. I have the pro super tuner. I loaded a base map into the bike, 044AAO003, which was the closest one I could find. The bike barely idles. When measuring the afr with an air fuel module, it is reading anywhere from 16 to 19 afr at idle. I tried to correct it with smart tune, but it doesn't suggest anywhere close to what it needs, it even suggested a leaner ve number. I don't know if I did something wrong in the proceedure of loading the map, but I've done these before and never had this problem. Maybe someone here has experienced this before and has a solution.