Here is my question:

Is it required that the throttle/RPM cells be attained in higher gears?

By that I mean, I run around town getting my tune data mostly in 2nd and 3rd gear. It is considerably slower, and easier to do. Am I missing out on higher-quality tune data? Is there a reason this has to be done in 5th/6th on the highway at 110mph?

 

5/6th gears will have a different MAP than running around in 2/3rd gears. No need to take it to 100MPH like I said previously, but some nice 5/6th gear Smart tunes on a highway, going from low RPM (not lugging), up to a "higher" RPM holding the throttle steady at different positions is a nice addition to your VE tables.

I took this from HTT (Thanks Mayor!) and used it as a very good guide. Yes it's TTs based, but the same concept can be used for SE Pro.

1. short shift the first couple of gears- meaning once you start moving, shift through 1st and 2nd gears to get into 3rd gear (be careful not to overly lug the engine). Gently do roll on's from the low rpm's in third gear to the high rpm's (as high as RPM's as you feel comfortable with...I took mine to 5.5-6k), repeat in 4th, repeat in 5th, repeat in 6th. Make sure you're not accelerating too fast, or you will exceed the maximum MAP. The more you get this area tuned the smoother it will feel (adding some timing might help too, depending on the engine and base cal)

2. Do some controlled decels slowly with pressure on the throttle (what I would call dragging the decel), and also do some fast decels at speed in the upper rpm's to get the far left side cells.

3. find some hills, and short shift through the gears before gently rolling on the throttle. Remember the higher the gear, the higher the MAP. If you find that you're not getting hi-MAP cells in the early RPM's, increase the gearing used.

4. find a road that you can ride fast on (closed course of course ), and wind out 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears with several different throttle ranges (making sure not to accel to fast, or you will exceed the allowable v-tune MAP). The higher the gear the higher the MAP, but the rate of acceleration is a key as well. If you find yourself uncomfortable winding 5th gear out (because a closed course is not available), then increase the rate of throttle pressure running in 3rd and 4th. Running several runns in each gear at various rate of throttle pressure (rate of acceration) will help cover a wider MAP range (and TPS for the AFR based cals)

5. Ride some hi-way speeds (65-75mph) in 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6ths gears...and do some controlled "passing" accelerations in those gears. Start out at 1,800-2,00 rpms and gently roll on the throttle in each of those gears to about 4,000 rpm, then do controlled decels (holding the throttle back on decel), switch gears and do it again. Each gear will change the amount of MAP (or TPS).

6. Ride some off hi-way speeds (35-45 mph zones) in 2nd, 5th and 6th gears.

7. Gently take 1st and 2nd gears to the upper rpm's using controlled accerations (meaning- don't just twist the wick).

 

Can someone explain to me under what circumstances the SEPST program would need to be re-installed? My 08 Street Glide was recently in the shop and is not performing like it did. Someone told me that when the battery is disconnected for any length of time, the program has to be re-installed? True or False?

 

Grill,

Thanks for the detailed response! So, if I was to take you literally, and I am only for argument's sake, then really, each gear could/should have a different MAP? Is the goal here to get enough samples in all gears in all ranges so as to have a 80/20 MAP? If so, that makes sense.

Question for you, or anyone, re: timing. How do you make timing adjustments? I don't mean technically, I mean what is the "feel" as to whether or not a bike could "use a degree or two"? Is it just a matter of trial and error?

Further, should we make timing adjustments after AFR adjustments, or before? Or do we redo the whole smarttune process after a timing tweak?

 

Follow on question to my follow on question:

My current tune feels very smooth across the powerband, but it feels like I lost some initial takeoff power. Is that a timing issue or did I do something wrong in my VE tables? Power feels great in the sweetspot, just at launch it feels softer. Not stuttering or any kind of misfiring, just not as strong.

Thanks ahead of time!

M

 

So I tried something tonight. I went back to my original base map and loaded all of my data files (29 in total) into the smart tune VE tables of the original base map. I hit generate and let it do it's thing. After it was done generating I hit update and saved the map with a new name. I compared this new map to the latest one that I had flashed onto my bike and found that alot of the VE cells were within .5 of a % but others were higher by several % and others were lower by several %.

I took the new map that I just made from all 29 data files and loaded it onto the bike and took it for a spin. Seemed to run about the same as the other map, which is to say it is running pretty good. I then richened up my AFR table and made my closed loop cruising area a lot smaller, I find my converted 883 cruises between about 2500 and 4000 rpm. I took it for another ride and it ran great so I think that I am going to leave it where it is for now. I am getting a bit tired of data logging all the time. It's time to just start enjoying the ride.

 

I changed my battery recently and did not have to re-initialize anything in the ECM.

Now I think if you have ThunderMax, then you have to reinitialize (but going off memory and sometimes my memory stinks..)

 

Thanks for the detailed response! So, if I was to take you literally, and I am only for argument's sake, then really, each gear could/should have a different MAP? Is the goal here to get enough samples in all gears in all ranges so as to have a 80/20 MAP? If so, that makes sense. You will not hit all cells when Smartuning. So, yes, 8020, 70/30, rule is good. I always have compared the original cal to my last file, compare VE tables, then outline what chnaged. You will see stair steps sort of changes. This helps me see where I've hit and not hit (something I like in the TTS and wish SE Pro did this for you. You can smooth the rest of the cells that you did not hit (down and right).

Question for you, or anyone, re: timing. How do you make timing adjustments? I don't mean technically, I mean what is the "feel" as to whether or not a bike could "use a degree or two"? Is it just a matter of trial and error? I always go Smartune. Then when my VEs are stable, I then reflash a reg map, ensure the timing map is correct (not the 4 degrees pulled what Smart tune does) and the ARF table is what you want. Then set up the bike to record, but not in smart tune mode and go record a ride. Then look at the data and see if the ECM pulls any timing (many times you can not hear detonation). If so, you can see if there is a trend in a certain RPM/MAP and then adjust. I've never "increased" my timing as I'm not comfortable doing it (newbie in the timing world), but just removed some timing if I see the ECM pulling it frequently. If you had a dyno, they can adjust the timing and see where the power drops off/timing is pulled and adjusted that way.

I use the program My Tune, as you load the timing maps and your recorded runs and it adjust your timing maps for you. Then you just copy it into your SE Pro file and reflash. I wish SE Pro had the timing adjustment capability like the Power Vision.

Further, should we make timing adjustments after AFR adjustments, or before? Or do we redo the whole smarttune process after a timing tweak? I have always got my VEs trued, then install the AFR map from Harleytuner and then go for some rides. See how it goes, then do some recorded runs as stated above. Folks say always do some smartune runs after timing adjustment, but you have to reflash a smart tuned map like Lonewolf does so you Smartune w/out the 4%s removed. Others can chime in, but that is how I do it.

 

Eventualy, you can go mad trying to get everything perfect. But sounds like your good and agree... go enjoy the ride!

 

Last one before I need to get back to work My guess, if you took what the program spit out when you generated new VEs, then it may not be a VE issue. You may want to go back and compare what you changed from previous map to current, look at everything (AFR, timing, etc... You can always go back in and make manual adjustments if needed.