1. My local dealer told me that PCIII usb "don't last long and need to be replaced." Has anyone heard that or experienced that?


2. A local independent shop told me that an upload or injection module is not necessary on bikes with O2 sensors because the sensors automatically increase fuel to compensate increased O2 from a high performance filter. What are your thoughts on that?

 

I do not like PCIII on bikes with O2 sensors. IMO, they do not have the adjustments necessary to do a complete tune for the newer bikes.

Time to find a new Indy!

O2 sensors are only good for steady throttle applications and idling. You need to increase VE tables to compensate for the additional air your engine will take in with a less restrictive filter.

 

Hi. I'm really confused. I have a 2007 Nightrod. It has aftermarket slipons. I went to get my inspection last Saturday and the tech told me I needed to get a PC because the bike was running lean. It has been hard to hold idle when I first turn it on and will cut out if I don't roll on the throttle a little to get it warm. I've been trying to follow these threads, but can't really make any sense of it. Can anyone help?

 

It may be a little lean.
I know how you feel. I am either there or been there.
Now the best advice I can give is not, The Answer.
What I did and highly advise is to get a TTS Mastertune. It comes with instructons. I even printed these out.

Study them. Several times. Read other articals on this subject.They pretty much explain what you need to know and do. And into the future. Just a process to understand, not magic.

the HD Engine Mangement is the same as almost every othet engine management in use. You understand one you can figure out all. so not a waste of time.

 

Answers to original questions.
I work in a Harley shop but I am not a Tech. So the experts may have a different answer.

1) This is true. Power Commanders and after market fuel packs seem to cause problems at the connecters and end up wearing out the pins. The basic reason is the way they are installed on Harleys. Most are installed under the seat where there is not a lot of room. Then add the weight of a rider on top. I have seen a lot of this coming into our Service Dept. and it is an expensive and timely fix once the pins have been messed up.

2) I have seen this question asked and answered many times and opinions differ. The Indy shop is incorrect. Harleys are set up lean from the factory. The ECM is designed to adjust to slight variables such as an air stage 1 or like air cleaner OR slip-ons NOT both. If you are changing both you will need the minimum of a Stage 1 download. This information is directly out of a Harley tech bulletiin.
Hopefully this answered your question.
I highly recommend to my customers, they should consider a SERT if changing the full exhaust and A/C. Why? because the Tuner allows for further adjustments a download will not compensate for.

 

I'd guess that he wants you to buy something from him. If you do a search on PCIII ou'll likely get pleny of storys of satisfied users.


This is true. I've read plenty of stuff that it will even compensate for both AC and pipes. Remember, when you get the download it is only synching your VE tables. No changes are made to the AFR tables.

If you want to learn more, NightRider has some good stuff at http://tuneyourharley.com/biketech/

 

Your tech may be right about it running lean, but your lean condition could be caused by a sticking/dirty IAC or vacume leak. Do a search and there are several tips on how to check and clean an IAC.

You will not have idle problems by simply switching to slip-ons unless there was something marginal there to begin with. I installed 2 inch slip-ons, it sounded faster but otherwise no change in performance or ride quality. Many have had the same experience here. Some have rode with both slip-ons and air filters and observe no idle problems.

 

Those products have a good history of longevity...I would question his comment.


This statement is a major red flag. O2 senors DO NOT increase (or decrease) fuel.

It is quite obvious this shop does not understand how the system works. IMHO, find another shop soon!

 

Lets not forget there is a TSB out from HD concerning bad connectors. I think the dealers are taking the easy way out blaming PCV/PCIII for an already documented problem. See attached file....

 

In all fairness I bet the Inde shop idea was right but the words came out wrong.

The O2 sensosr doesn't adjust the fuel. They want to see what they want to see. What it sees goes into the EMC and the EMC adjusts fuel to give the O2 sensors what they want. Depenting on all kind of things, temp, load, etc,etc. Why its called, "closed loop". Round and round.

When you change the air cleaner or muffler the engine ,MAY, breath different and within a smal lbit, about 1/2 AFR +or- it can adjust things to suit inself.
In "closed loop" only.

Out of closed loop, almost anything but cruising, the engine will run lean almost for sure. Because it is running on the VE tables and they are set. Unless you have a tuner.
Mufflers, not so much.
A good air filter and things are marginal.

This is why a lot of folks say to get a tuner.

I have a SERT then got a TTS Mastertune, cause the TTS does things the SERT cannot. Price is about the same.
But most do the job for what they are designed for.

Some are add on and as one would expect there might be connection problems down the road.
SERT, SEST, and TTS Mastertund, may be others I don't know, are not add ons. You hook them up to the ECM, make the changes to the program and download to the ECM. No connections are disturbed.