A distinction should be drawn between add on units like fuel pak, pcv and tools that reprogram the ECM like TTS and SEST.

The best choice depends on exactly what the individual wants to achieve.

 

Those connectors are very resistant to water intrusion.

 

Personally I prefer the SERT. It enables me to adjust the Volumetric Efficiency tables in the ECM and other important tables. I am not just throwing fuel or timing at the bike. Secondly the ECM on 07 and up models have Adaptive Fuel Values that adjust for riding style/ load, weather, and wear on bike. SERT keeps this function working properly. Thirdly the new EITMS (Engine Intermitant Temperature Management System). All the other systems I am aware of disable these functions. As far as the ECM compensating for changes, it can only change fuel values 3-5% at a time with a maximum of 40%. The main function that determines how rich or lean the engine is running is actually the Ion Sensing. This is done through the coil/sparkplug and read as a hertz value by the ECM through it's clean ground. Yes non OEM plugs and plug wires can distort these numbers and change the way the bike runs. Also attatching accessories to the clean ground can do the same thing. 02 sensors are basically confirming the fuel ratio after combustion has occured. For me anything piggy backing a component is a band aid and more connections increase odds for a connection failure.

 

How many miles are on the 07 Night Rod and has it had a valve adjustment?

 

Left out an important fact on ECM's adjustment ability. It is only in Closed Loop mode. As previously stated that is only in cruising speeds (thats just a basic way to say it, but true). Other than that you are in Open Loop.

 

Nice try software geek. Can you say Revolution Motor? Its a V-Rod.

 

I best contact the motor company about ion sensing. They are under the impression that their ECM's use ion sensing for detonation and sensing a lean or rich condition along with the o2 sensor. If they are wrong I wonder how the ECM measured how the gases were burning in earlier Delphi systems without o2's?

 

If I may, I'm going to move from comparing TTS and PCIII to the PCV since it is the latest model of the genre. The PCV is available for all EFI bikes from 2002, so I think changing the subject slightly is fair. When I want to refer to both I'll use the term "PCx."

PCx has ignition adjustment with the PCV allowing ±100° in 500 locations. It does not offer adjust of ignition or anything else on the ECU level, but the net result is the same.


Referring to the PCV:

Warm-up enrichment, cranking fuel, IAC warm-up steps, accel enrichment,decel enleanment,
throttle progressity, engine displacement size, injector size, rpm limit, knock control.

All of the above can be adjusted by the PCV, or in the case of knock-sensing retains the ECUs full capability. The way it adjusts is different from the flash-based tuners, obviously, but the features are there. I don't think most riders would use most of these features, however, and most just want a good tune. Either tuning solution, including others on the market, will do that.


IAC warm-up steps: Warm-up steps, yes, but not through IAC. Same result, however.

ACR? Please explain.

Closed-loop bias: The basic PCV runs in open-loop, but AT tunes the entire RPM/TP range. The flash-based tuners will only allow AFRs of 14.2-15.0, which would be good enough for most of us including me, but some want to run richer in the cruise-range. You can tune 11-16:1 with the PCV-AT, 0-6250 (or higher), and 0-100% TP.

Injector size: No, but the adjustability is greater with the PCV. In a recent 150-hp supercharger build described in the Touring section both TTS and the PCV were used. The latter was necessary because TTS could not adjust for the enormous injectors used. I don't recall the size needed but will locate the thread if anyone is interested. Or, go to the Touring section and search on "Procharger".

The problem with your statement is that most of these are covered with the PCV and I really don't think you understand the features available on that device. What the flash-based tuners won't do is provide tuning by gear selected and do not offer a map-switch feature. The latter is important to me which brings out the point I've been making all along: Both PCV and flash-based tuners are very competent devices, and which is right for a given rider depends on which feature set is strongest in his eyes.



What tuners don't have on-line updates? The PCx certainly does.

Quote:

The nice part of this is their hardware is actually able to be updated. How many times has PC offered to update their hardware?

How can the flash-based tuners be updated when there is no hardware except that which is already on the bike?

The PCx is updatable via the firmware upgrades.

Fuel Moto has hundreds of maps available for all model bikes, not just 40 for mostly HD parts. Some established tuning facilities like Latus HD offer SEST maps, but they aren't free.

Yes, plus you can buy the LCD-200 which puts the info in view while riding. That device also allows data-logging and switching between multiple maps on the fly.

TTS/SEST do not auto-tune. They work with stock narrow-band O2 sensors that provide closed-loop operation between 0-50% throttle and won't allow AFR adjustment except between 14.2-15.0:1. There is a big difference between this and the PCV-AT's wide-band sensors that provide true auto-tuning throughout the RPM and TP range.

Who is claiming the PCV is the answer to everyone's needs? Could you point to one post in any thread that makes this claim? OTOH, you seem to be making the same claim about TTS.

 

Yes, I am making a judgment. If the OP already has a PCIII, which is perfectly capable of tuning his bike, I believe it would be foolish to remove it and install another tuner unless something else will provide features that he must have. I don't see this qualifier here but if I missed it please point it out.

It's the pot calling the kettle black. You are now being judgmental by claiming another tuner is "much better." Much better for whom? The OP? I don't see where this is indicated. You are also conveniently using the PCIII as an opportunity for comparison, but the latest model of the genre is the PCV. In the case of the OP his PCIII will provide an optimal tune given a proper dyno-tune or otherwise is equipped with a good map.

 

This is totally false and shows me you don't understand how the PCV-AT works. It samples at 50x/sec., and all you need to do is make 1-2 hard runs at WOT and you're done. Period.

It holds a specific AFR within its range, which is only 0-50% throttle, below ~3k RPM, and only within 14.2-15.0:1 AFR. "Slightly richer" is the keyword and you are correct. What if you want 13.8:1 in the cruise range for optimal cooling?

Are you aware that you can attain 25% TP in the lower gears, which don't involve high speeds?

You are either in auto-tune mode or not, and it is switchable in the software. I can also switch between open-loop (non-AT) and closed-loop (AT) on the fly using a dash switch. I run a rich base map for cooling, leaner AT settings for mileage. When the bike gets hot, I flip the switch.

You can also monitor the AFRs on your computer or via the LCD display unit that mounts on your bike whether you're in auto-tune mode or not.