Screamin Eagle is right on the money. Lots of folks here using my maps... and can vouch for me. And I agree with everything Screamin Eagle is telling you. Richen up the mixture on the 1450 map, then bump up the timing. Check your work with data mode. Look specifically for knock sensor activity. If you see any, then you're at the limit. You'll feel the difference when you ride it.... and you'll see the difference in a cooler running engine that gets decent fuel mileage.

 

Sorry for butting in... I'm not Screamin Eagle, but I'll give you my answer...

A lean condition can cause denotation (pinging)... the way around this is to retard the timing to prevent pinging caused by leaness. The canned maps are lean to start with.. plus, HD has to release generic maps that can work in all kinds of scenarios. You take a 275lb rider, a 150lb passenger... and some bags, then put them on a ride in 105 degree heat and humidity.... and the guy runs low octane fuel... it's a receipe for pinging. So the standard maps have to account for all these things... therefore they are tuned on the very safe side. Once you richen things up and get the mixture where it should be, you've got room to tune the engine properly. A big part of that is timing. That's where power, engine cooling and fuel mileage lies.... it is also the reason why so many complain of popping on decel.

If you are tuning it yourself, get familiar with data mode. Run it with knock sensors enabled. Always look for knock sensor activity. Knock sensors protect the engine from pinging by automatically retarding the timing. There are there as a safeguard... so you want to leave yourself a cushion. It isn't rocket science.... and it's all pretty well explained in the sert manual.

 

Well, my dealer doesn't agree with Screamin' Eagle, so who knows what the correct answer is.

My dealer's comment is that the only thing that isn't under warranty is anything that is damaged by the change that you make. If they install any HD approved part, the warranty remains in place. Now, what the warranty covers using SE stuff is maybe or maybe not different than stock... I don' t know because I never looked. I put the stuff on the bike that I want, and ride. A good dealer will be honest and warrant stuff that should be warranted and a bad one won't. That's been my experience so far. If you want something for your attorney to chew on, have your dealer, and the same dealer, do all of the work and document your conversations with them... geeze.

The RT in SERT stands for Race Tuner and that should point out the obvious. You can tweak a SERT way beyond what is relevant for every day riding, imho.

I suppose that an extremely rich condition could cause blueing of pipes... because the unspent fuel hits the hot pipe and makes it hotter when it ignites? I've never heard this interpretation, but pre-detonation (pinging) and lean conditions are certainly able to damage an engine. Modern engines run lean for gas mileage and air quality. They are designed to run lean, but you are much closer to the edge of a problem than the "old days".

Someone that can run a dyno really well is a special person with a lot of patience and knowledge. I would think that dealers have hit or miss success in finding these people. Check around and find one that has a good reputation and have them dyno your bike after you install the maps that were recommended. Test ride it and if you don't like what you're feeling and hearng, take it back until it is correct. Charge it on your credit card and if they don't fix it to your satisfaction, tell them you're going to call the credit card company and have the charge disputed.

IMHO you have to watch out for timing issues and lean conditions most of all. If you're really experienced with engine tuning, you can do this all yourself, of course.

C#

 

Screamin Eagle and JamieWG,
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain and share your knowledge on SERT, maps and EFI concepts. I do inherently trust your suggestions because they make good sense. Although I’m new to EFI concepts, I’m not new to motors, PCs and physics.

I’m going to richen the AFR table per your suggestions, ride the bike, and then if all is good, I’ll retard the timing. I need to read up and think through timing concepts, because I thought by increasing the timing in the spark advance table I would be advancing the spark, not retarding it?

Thanks again,
Jack

PriceLess Amp Restoration
http://www.priceamp.com

 

Here's the 1450 table with reduced AFR cells I'm planning on using. Does this make sense to you guys?



[IMG]local://upfiles/13917/4954791B78F045B793E982D21F11E5B4.jpg[/IMG]

 

running a 1550 map, vs a 1450 map, is not going to cause a hot running motor.

also, a rich condition will run Cooler, than a lean condition.
in fact,
the ECM is Programmed to ADD FUEL, or RUN RICH when the Motor Reaches a Certain High Temp, it automatically ADDS FUEL,
why, to COOL the motor!

[&:] just my 2 cents on that issue.

You are Better off with a RICH map, than a LEAN map,
and MOST of the standard Maps are LEAN
so Barry's 1550 MAP on his 1450, makes alot of sense,
PLUS he says it works!

ALSO, Timing has alot to do with the motor running HOT or COOL.

YOU WANT THE MAXED OUT TIMING, most advanced timing you can get
without Pinging = PreDetonation.

a RETARDED motor ABSOLUTELY will run HOT!

-----------------------------------------------------------
and not have as much power either, so MORE Throttle, and No Go, cause timing is retarded.

 

Thanks Mike...
All I can say is my bike runs great, very good throttle response and good
gas mileage. And setting at a red light in this 100+ weather we are having,
I can really tell a difference in the heat...much cooler.
Also the two Harley Shops I deal with said no way the SERT would void the
warranty, unless it was directly related, and the dealer I bought from said
he would never deny a warranty issue unless it was strictly abuse by the
customer. But he also said Harley can deny warranty claims, guess I will
cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

A correct mixture is better yet and it must be achieved for maximum power, milage and engine life. An engine running on the "rich" side has its own bag of detriment, ie, poor ring life due to washing and varnish build-up, gas flooded oil, Carbon build-up, etc. It was mentioned that these engines are designed to run a tick on the lean side, true that. Carbon build-up on big pistons can be a detonation nightmere.
When tuning, it is easier to start on the lean side then add fuel to correct the ratio then it is to find the sweet spot from the rich side.
An engine running on the rich side will certainly seem to run good which gives the unknowing owner a false sense of reassurence.

 

Sorry, you must have misunderstood what I was saying.... You want to advance the timing, not retard it. I hope my posts were clear on this, don't want to cause more misinformation.

 

When I had my efi Dyna I used a DTT WEGO A/F meter to monitor the AF ratio when riding. I would dump the data and use SERT to adjust the fuel. Worked very well. It's a resonable option to dyno time.