Zippers ECU with Auto tune
#1
03-25-2010, 07:13 AM
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#2
03-25-2010, 08:34 AM
You might want to read this thread as there is no utility for "free" air calibration of the wideband sensors with this system. Just more information to digest before you spend the cash.
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....699.0/all.html
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....699.0/all.html
#3
03-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Many riders have the Zippers ThunderMax and have made them work very well. They have been around for years but are getting a bit long in the tooth.
If you have a late model bike with O2 sensors, or an ECU upgradable to O2 sensors, you will get a better real world tune for less money with a TTS tuning kit. You may want to look into it. The TTS kit retains the more modern and reliable Delphi ECU and more accurate and reliable O2 sensors. The Delphi ECU is also a bit more sophisticated than the Zippers ECU.
In the end, you need a pretty well calibrated seat of the pants to tell the difference. You may have much less of pocket $$$, and no/less hardware to install with the TTS kit, however. You can get spot on with it.
If you have a late model bike with O2 sensors, or an ECU upgradable to O2 sensors, you will get a better real world tune for less money with a TTS tuning kit. You may want to look into it. The TTS kit retains the more modern and reliable Delphi ECU and more accurate and reliable O2 sensors. The Delphi ECU is also a bit more sophisticated than the Zippers ECU.
In the end, you need a pretty well calibrated seat of the pants to tell the difference. You may have much less of pocket $$$, and no/less hardware to install with the TTS kit, however. You can get spot on with it.
Last edited by ColdCase; 03-25-2010 at 09:37 AM.
#4
03-26-2010, 07:28 AM
Tourer
#6
03-26-2010, 08:21 AM
There are a couple forum sticky treads above as well as over on harleytechtalk. Surprised you have not heard of them as it is the hot tuning thing going at the moment. If you are familiar with the old SERT, the TTS is an improved version plus some nifty tuning tools. You can dial the bike in spot on using a dyno or the street.
The TTS web site is www.mastertune.net
The TTS web site is www.mastertune.net
#7
03-26-2010, 07:55 PM
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#8
03-27-2010, 08:08 AM
Sold a bunch of KZ parts, now time for a tuner
OK I am going to get a tuner I just don't know which one.
What can the TTS do?
What can the Zippers do?
My theory on this is the it seems like the TTS just reprograms the stock ECM, but people say that the ECM is the problem, and thats why you'd be better off with the Zippers unit. The Zippers unit is its own ECM no Stock ECM that had a block on certain parameters. Also I could take the Zippers unit off and put it on a different bike.
Now this is the first time someone has mentioned the TTS tuner.
Like I said I am very familiar with ECM's and really familiar with car ECM's. So I'm not afraid of getting into tuning. I just want the best bang for the buck. All comments are welcome, and would like feedback from people who have the two ECM's, and have tuned with them.
What can the TTS do?
What can the Zippers do?
My theory on this is the it seems like the TTS just reprograms the stock ECM, but people say that the ECM is the problem, and thats why you'd be better off with the Zippers unit. The Zippers unit is its own ECM no Stock ECM that had a block on certain parameters. Also I could take the Zippers unit off and put it on a different bike.
Now this is the first time someone has mentioned the TTS tuner.
Like I said I am very familiar with ECM's and really familiar with car ECM's. So I'm not afraid of getting into tuning. I just want the best bang for the buck. All comments are welcome, and would like feedback from people who have the two ECM's, and have tuned with them.
#9
03-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Where have you heard that the Delphi ECU is a problem? That is absurd. The Delphi ECU is very sophisticated and well regarded, reliable unit. It is the best ECU made for the Harley. The T-Max substitutes an older technology Marrelli based unit for the Delphi, a unit that gives away several advantages for wide band sensor support.
Now we can discus at length the pluses and minuses of every technical detail and capability difference, but the bottom line is how well the work on the street. I suggest you study both the threads above and the ones over at
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/board,13.0.html and
https://www.hdforums.com.au/Default....ics&forumid=27
The TTS kit helps you established the air pump characteristics of the engine and then aids you in developing a spot on MAP for the bike. It uses all the stock bike components, which is good stuff. The TMax does something similar only with its own ECU and O2 sensors, for more money, with less reliability, and more difficulty to get right. In the end, a good tuner that knows EFI like the back of his hand can get close to optimum with either system. The average DYI that does not know EFI will get pretty close with the TTS tuning kit, won't have much of a chance with a TMax.
Its complicated, but reading through the forums above and nightrider.com will give you plenty of info to mull over.
In the end, the current tuner for the late Model O2 equipped bikes is the TTS, whether you are an amateur or Pro, stock or highly modified. It is not for everyone, however, and there are several aftermarket products that do a pretty good job livening up the bike and providing high riding satisfaction.
By the way, the TTS company's primary business is in the auto racing world, GM products primarily (also Delphi based).
Now we can discus at length the pluses and minuses of every technical detail and capability difference, but the bottom line is how well the work on the street. I suggest you study both the threads above and the ones over at
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php/board,13.0.html and
https://www.hdforums.com.au/Default....ics&forumid=27
The TTS kit helps you established the air pump characteristics of the engine and then aids you in developing a spot on MAP for the bike. It uses all the stock bike components, which is good stuff. The TMax does something similar only with its own ECU and O2 sensors, for more money, with less reliability, and more difficulty to get right. In the end, a good tuner that knows EFI like the back of his hand can get close to optimum with either system. The average DYI that does not know EFI will get pretty close with the TTS tuning kit, won't have much of a chance with a TMax.
Its complicated, but reading through the forums above and nightrider.com will give you plenty of info to mull over.
In the end, the current tuner for the late Model O2 equipped bikes is the TTS, whether you are an amateur or Pro, stock or highly modified. It is not for everyone, however, and there are several aftermarket products that do a pretty good job livening up the bike and providing high riding satisfaction.
By the way, the TTS company's primary business is in the auto racing world, GM products primarily (also Delphi based).
#10
03-27-2010, 03:46 PM
Road Warrior
I've had excellent results with Tmax w/AT on my wife's 07 Street Bob. I'm looking to do the same on my '10 SG but it's not yet available. I may go with PCV w/AT instead since I'm ready to do my exhaust and intake mods and I'm short on patience. Regardless, the wide band O2 sensors and the auto tune function make sense to me for a variety of reasons.