coldcase, I'll repeat
What proof do you have the Tmax is less reliable than the stock ecm?

opinions are biased where's your facts

Al

 

I think the are now available for your 2010. You might want to check there web site. Like you, I love my tmax. Have not had any trouble over the last five years with it. Bike starts and runs perfect.

 

Are you claiming the TMax is more reliable that the Delphi or are you just stirring things up with FUD? I'll ask you again what proof you have that the Delphi is less reliable than the TMax?

I'll tell you again that there are loads of antidotal evidence scattered all over the net of those that have gave up on the TMax in disgust, just to many problems and the TMax is now gathering dust on a shelf somewhere. There are loads of those that had to send back the TMax for repair. You don't see many posts on the Delphi ECU, and those you see are usually the flash being corrupted by a SEST operator that was not careful (the TTS does not have this feature). According Bosch (you know the guys that make these sensors), the WB sensors have half the life of the narrowband sensors. Someone posted the manufactures data a couple months ago.

No opinion, just fact....

There are plenty of satisfied TMax users as there are with the PCV and PCV with auto tune, And PCIIIs and V&H fuels pack.... many not so satisfied too.

 

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do on another site.
Does the TTS have a wide band o2 option ?
Can you adjust timing with both units?

 

Remember the Delphi system is an auto-tuned system, using O2 sensor readings for feedback.

From reading the various posts, manufactures data and talking to tuners that take pride in their work.... this TMax and PCV Auto-tune WB sensor claim makes sense only on paper, but not on the street. Not taking away the good luck you've had and the riding satisfaction, it works for you, but for the new guys... several system will replace the detuned factory setup with something that gives you more riding satisfaction.

According to the O2 sensor manufacture, the WB sensors are not guaranteed accurate in the HD application as well as they tend to drift over time (thats been proven in the field, look at all those that need to replace O2 sensors yearly to bring the life back to their TMax system). They need to be free air calibrated often. That may be practical for a dyno but not a street bike. So the TMax programming has to make up for it by being conservative, which mitigates any advantage to using them over a Dephi narrowband O2 system. The manufacture says the narrowband sensors are dead on accurate and remain accurate for a very long time (that's been proven in the field). They may get lazy but not inaccurate.

TMax is also hurt by the lack of several Dephi features like load based timing and the ion sensors. Thats why TMax auto tunes don't do very well on a dyno and tend to fall off WOT. If you want to get the most out of the bike you have to have a pro tune them on a dyno, just like any other system. With a pro dyno tune, TMax systems can be made to run very well, but that conflicts with auto tune concept.

My point, to those new kids on the block, is that if you are looking for the absolute most out of the bike, the DYI TMax is not going to do it, you need a dyno pro, most of which use the TTS. DYI's routinely gets close to a pro tune using the TTS tuning kit.

If you are just looking for a decent street tune, and street riding satisfaction, the TMax goes a long way around to get there, and using a TTS tuning kit gets you there with better street results faster and with a lot less money.

The TMax advantages to the average rider started disappearing 4-5 years ago when HD started using O2 sensors from the factory. Auto-tune became buit in from the factory. And it really took a hit a year or two ago when the TTS tuning kits became available.

Seat of the pants wise it would be hard to tell the difference between a TMax auto tuned and a TTS V-tuned or a PCV auto tuned, but you need deep pockets to afford the TMax or PCV... as well as some mechanical ability (if you are a DYI type). In my opinion, this is one case were more $$$ does not make a better product.

If you are not a DYI type, you go to a pro tuner and use what he/she suggests.

 

TTS dose not use WB sensors. WB sensors use different voltages and the delphi ECU is not set up for them. On a dyno you may use the dyno's calibrated WB sensors as it may not take as long to tune.

You can adjust timing on both systems. The TTS is more straight forward as the Delphi uses load based timing. But if you know what you are doing (its complicated) you can use either system. You really need to know what you are doing, however. Except for making minor adjustments to reduce a ping, its not for the unexperienced. Neither of these systems provide any analysis tools, just the raw capability to fiddle. Unless you want that last 1 HP and 1 lBft of torque, you don't need to touch timing, it just gets so complicated for little payback as long as the cam profile matches up to the map.

The problem, as I'm sure you are aware, is that the most power is made at fuel mixes that burn at temperatures that the engine can't handle. These tuners try to push the envelop as much as they dare without burning valves for any fuel you may encounter on the street. If you want a spot on WOT power tune you need to tune to EGTs. Tune the A/F to push the EGT to the point of damage. My diesel uses EGT sensors to warn me when I'm pulling too hard, so I can back off before hurting a valve. The MAPs do things like squirt a bit of fuel early to cool intake valves, but you need to know your cam timing and several other parameters to stay out of trouble.

Now we all know you can't make a HD street bike fast, just faster.

Although there are some here, the pros have a tendency to hang at other sites, something about advertising constraints and privacy issues here. Its hard to answer questions here without also being a forum sponsor. So they migrate to forums and discussion groups that have less constraints, like the techtalk forums and non US based sites that are not as commercial.

 

It looks like an opinion based on what you read and repeat it as "fact".

I am not claiming anything, you are. I'm asking for you to back up what you say with fact. As in proof. Where's your experience on this? As in
how was your TMax unreliable.

Malicious alienation of a product is not needed in a "Find your asnwers here" thread.

Al

 

Just checked and not yet available for TBW. Fuelmoto did a test on the new TBW Tmax recently so it should be available to the public soon. I'm on zippers list to get my hands on one as soon as it's out!

 

This would never have happened if HD wasn't forced by the EPA to switch from both carbed models and a reliable EFI system using TPS to determine engine load instead to one that measures manifold pressure with its heat and throttle response issues. Oh, sorry, wasn't supposed to say that, meant to say that my Delphi ECU and the dealer's tuning solution is so much better in every way because it's new and on my HD, etc. etc...