Wow! Now I don't know what to do...

 

yep what he said. I have an 06 Electra and was going to get a tuner, now I don't know which one to buy. I guess that all depends on what is on the bike mods if any and what I want to achieve with the tuner. All I'm looking for is a little more power, mileage and make it run cooler.

 

Indecision is worse than no decision. Make a decision and learn from your decision.

 

I've got the SERT Pro, just upgraded to the latest version of software w/Smart Tune. I like it.

 

Not a problem. If the PC fails, which is a very remote possibility, just unplug it and ride on. The map won't be ideal but you won't be stranded.

If you prefer a tuner other than the PCx that is a legitimate choice. I am challenging statements that the PCx is an inferior, less-accurate tuner than T/S and that it disables the ECM's adaptive features, among other misconceptions. None are true. I think "manipulates" is a better term, but how it achieves the change it irrelevant. If you program "x" into the ECM via T/S or "manipulate" it after the fact with a PCx the net result (injector pulse-width) is the same. It is simply two different ways of achieving the same result.

Just because you prefer it or find S/T easier to tune doesn't mean others have the same opinion, although your ideas are as worthy for submission here as anyone else's. I've heard some tuners say the opposite, and you haven't heard me say one is easier to tune or otherwise superior to the other, as I am not a tuner and believe they are both excellent solutions. One has the jump on the other with some features and vice versa, and it is up to the buyer to determine which is best for him/her.

I didn't say RevXtend was an unworthy feature, but that the tach stopping at 5100 might not be considered a big deal to many bikers. It wouldn't be for me since I'm above 5K RPM maybe once per year. OTOH if I was a competitive drag-racer I would find this to be an annoying quirk and probably a deal-breaker. Anyway, my '07 isn't affected by this and the tach operates normally, as it does for all non-TBW bikes.

What other item did you "call BS on." I must've missed it.

Whatever you call them, canned or custom, there are more maps available for the PCx than for T/S.

Are your SERT maps available to the average customer who buys SERT or SEST from HD? Are you willing to email thousands of maps to people just for the asking? If you buy a PCx from Fuel Moto you also buy his map library to tap into when you make changes to your configuration. To me this is a big plus for the PCx customer and a major selling-point for this tuner. It doesn't make the tuner better, but the availability of maps to me is a big selling point.

I am not a tuner and have used only PC's in the past. Rather than dwell on that, why not simply dispute what I'm saying. I am disputing the sea of misinformation that has flooded this thread, and so far none of you have disputed any of my statements. Here they are in a nutshell:

1. Both PCx and S/T are excellent tuners that will perform equally when equipped with a proper map.

2. The PCx uses all the adaptive features in the stock ECM, just as do the Cole products.

3. The PCV-AT is not $500 more expensive than S/T and is actually cheaper if you factor in a dyno-tune, which is a requirement for an accurate tune with T/S unless an accurate map is already available. I know of no locations where maps can be obtained by any given S/T owner, but if there are any libraries available I would certainly like to know about them.

Had the original hijacker who began regurgitating misinformation had not done so in the first place there would be no proliferation of hijackers to follow. I just get my dander up when I read false information and am trying my best to expose it.

 

I've had a PCIII and a PCV under my right side-cover for over three years without problems. In the case of the PCV I used dielectric grease on the connectors as a precaution, but didn't with the PCIII (two years use). Anyway, the ECM and main connector is housed there, so I would think it is a safe environment. These bikes were not on DynoJet's list for using dielectric grease, which I would consider mandatory for some other bikes like Softails that locate the PCx under the mud cover in front of the rear wheel. That's bound to be a wet, filthy environment that would require some sort of water-repellent product like dielectric grease.

I've installed several PC's for friends and have always used dielectric grease as a precaution, even those housed under the seat, which should stay dry.

You make a good point about washing the bike, as if a pressure-washer is used it would be prudent to aim it away from a location where any electrical or electronic component is housed. Even if a low-pressure water hose is used I would use the same strategy.

 

You are jumping to conclusions, and we are seeing signs of cognitive dissonance in this thread along with the obvious plethora of misinformation. Harleytuner made some good points, but the one about locating a PCx under the side cover of a touring bike is not valid based on my experience and DynoJet's advisory. Besides, if this was a problematic location for electronic components HD would not have housed the ECM there. Anyway, Coldcase has several other glaring items of misinformation he needs to clear up, IMO.

 

Your needs are common among new-bike owners, and many of us have waded through the same questions. Research is the key, so I would go to the Touring section of this forum and do some searching. There is quite a bit of info there that's based on owner feedback. Also, call Jamie at Fuel Moto and talk with him. He is a no-BS guy that will not try to sell you something you don't want or need, and sells most tuners including TTS and PCV. He has long experience tuning both HD's and racing bikes, and was a pro racer himself at one time.

 

First off I said I prefer SERT over PC, I never said PC wouldn't et the job done. I said I don't like PC because you are adding hardware, and heck, my point was just proven in another thread in this same section. His bike won't run with the PC hooked up, but it doean when he uninstalls it. You say I could remove it and ride on if my bike fails, read my build, if you owned my bike would you risk riding it on a stock MAP? I aiint no stage 1, and the majority of the bikes I work on are not stage 1's. My area really big for performance Harleys. A quick gance shows me that HD has 125 "canned" MAPS for SERT, don't know how many PC has, I do know it is alot though. And yes, if I was a TTS dealer I would have no problem giving my MAPS to customers, (I'm pretty sure you can copy and paste tables from SERT to TTS, but not positive), besides that, I have given MAPS to alot of mambers here. When you said PC had tons of canned MAPS I wasn't realizing that you were referring to people that bought from FuelMoto. If you are only experienced with PC how can you say that it tunes just as well as SERT?

 

I don't understand. Could you re-phrase that?

You make a very good point. OTOH I think the chances of a PCV failure is very remote. Fuel Moto claims they've had "far less than 1% failure rate," and they're the biggest seller of PC's (and possibly TTS) in the world. If an owner has a build that won't run on a stock map I suppose that might be a concern, but most would not need to be.

I didn't know there were that many, but isn't it true that most are for bikes equipped with HD hardware? If so most people don't use HD mufflers, etc. Is there a map for, say, an '08 EG with Rinehart mufflers? How about an '10 RK with 2-into-1 exhaust and Wood 6-6 cams?

Your map library sounds like a good resource for T/S owners, but I was referring to maps readily accessible to any given user. It's good that you are willing to share your maps, but most T/S owners won't know that your library exists, and if they did I would guess that you probably don't have the time to service hundreds of email requests for freebie maps. Of course what about a small fee, like $25 per map?

The basic mission of a tuner is to provide the proper injector pulse-width at the right time, as well as optimal ignition timing, and both are a factor of the tuning process. It is a fact that both tuners can accomplish this requirement. If the PCV is given the proper value in the map tables it will be correct the next day and the next month. The same goes for the T/S tune, and the on-board sensors work equally well for both. In the case of the PCV with Auto-Tune the human tuning element is no longer a factor in optimizing AFR's, as tuning is done on the fly based on the specifications given in the Target AFR tables.

The PCx and T/S will both provide the proper injector pulse-width when properly tuned, and it doesn't take someone who has experience on a dyno to know it. Am I wrong? I am aware that T/S has more tables to work with and both devices have certain features the other doesn't have, but the bottom line is that for most riders either device will work very well. I will say that for the money a PCV purchased from Fuel Moto is likely the best bang-for-the-buck option on the market, especially when combined with his asymmetrical Jackpot mufflers. In most cases that $300 expenditure will have a proper custom map loaded for your bike's exact configuration, and based on feedback alone their reputation for providing a quality product is quite above normal. Go to the Touring section of HDForums and do a search on Fuel Moto.