It's true that the ECU re-flash will work for a sage 1. They run an average of 150 bucks, the main problem with it is it is a generic re-map that was mapped for S.E. pipes and S.E. a/c. It works well with most stage I's though, I have seen some with heavy breathers that ran a little to lean for my liking though. The other problem with the download is tht if you decide to ever make any more performance upgrades you'll have to go to another fuel management anyways, so the 150 bucks you spent on the download is now worthless, not to mention you'll have to have the ECU flashed back to stock if you wanted to use a pre-made map otherwise you'd need the full dyno tune. I've never tuned a TTS but from what I here, they are really similar to the SERT with a few more added benefits. There is alot of stuff out there now that will "auto tune". I pout a sage I on a buds '09 R.G. cop bike with a 103" in it. V & H monster ovals S.E. breather P.C. V with auto tune. After I set the targeted AFR and the things tuned itself it runs like a champ. Best thing for him is, he can do whatever he wants to the bike and it will tune for it. It constantly re-tunes, even as the filter gets dirty.

 

It's noteworthy to also say...

Again, this is personal preference as to what you want to run on your bike. I know guys that won't touch it and only run stock values until they sell or trade. Also have known guys to beef up the motor and exhaust the first day the bike comes home and want the tune exact. It's simply a matter of taste and wants. But if you like it the way it is and it runs fine, leave it alone before the modification bug bites you in the ****.

I have tuned many a PC. The PCV/w auto will tune or re-tune at a constant rate. So will the TMax. Some tuning experience as well as computer knowledge is needed for all fuel management systems auto or not. My personal preference is not to have a piggyback fuel management system on the bike.

I would also like to add that the ECM has a built in learning curve as well. It will not only read and adjust but remember these adjustments in a non-volatile memory within the ECM. Each time you reflash with a TTS it will clear the internal learning curve and start over. I do not know if this is true with the SERT or SEST. If someone can inform me of this I would be appreciative.

 

I see.

 

The SERT erases the current L-curve upon reprogramming. The SEST; I'm not sure of because it's not made by TTS.

 

The SERT was a partnership between TTS and HD...HD had a falling out with TTS and the SEST was built by someone else. That's why the SERT is similar to the TTS Mastertune. Big mistake in my opinion. The TTS Mastertune is one of the best tuning softwares out their. It's the best one that I've ever heard of besides the 4 & 5 EGA dyno software.
Having said all that....I'm drifting into, "theft of thread".

 

I'm sure you are correct... thanks for the info

 

In practice there are several ways to tune the bike to provide a satisfying ride for the individual. I don't think there is one best system out there for everyone.

I just want to mention that the stock ECU will also retune itself for things like dirty filters and pump gas, as well as modifications. It only has visibility to a narrow range of A/F however, so for those times it needs to provide a richer mix (WOT and idle) it just guesses based on the MAP programmed in and the corrections needed for closed loop operation. Unless you are racing, the 09-10 models run about 80% of the time closed loop. Older models maybe 40-50%. The problem is that factory MAPs since the 80s were tuned for emissions, not for the most satisfying ride. There are several methods that correct that.

The more expensive TMax and PCV auto tune systems start with a base map that they think provides a more satisfying ride for the mods on the bike (these can also be tweaked if needed). The system then monitors A/F and makes adjustments based on O2 sensors that can measure the richer fuel mixes you want to run at or near WOT. So there is a direct feedback mechanism across the board, no real need to guess. In theory this sounds great, but the real world technology available is a compromise.

What TTS and dyno tuning systems do is characterize the motor air flow so that the ECU guesses can be precisely matched to it and then tweak the MAP to provide the most satisfying ride. The TTS tuning kit software does this automatically for you, a dyno tune technician makes these adjustments manually. Once programed with the MAP tweaked for the specific bike, the ECU does its normal thing, but now it has much better rules to follow. In practice these more precise guesses along with a good MAP will tune a little better than a full auto tune mostly because of the safety margin that must be programmed in to accommodate wideband sensor accuracy.

The Delphi ECU itself is a very capable EFI controller. I think that, if you make a significant mod, any system would need to be re-programmed with a better base MAP for good results.

 

I've tuned literraly hundreds of bikes, I am well informed on the tuning process. I havn't tuned a TTS system yet, but I have tuned plenty of SERT SEST and PC III PCV and Thundermax.

 

on another forum you state you are 23 yrs old, just how long have you actualy been tuning bikes??????????????????????

 

I'd like to see that other forum. I'm 38. Only ever forum I belong to is v-twin and I have only posted a few times there a year ago. So wherever you think you saw this, wasn't me.