I ride a 01 Softail Heritage Classic with 30K miles and is a EFI with only a stage 1, a Hypercharger and Thunderheaders installed. Last year my bike started cuttting out or dieing momentarily then coming back running just fine very quickly. This dieing started becoming more frequent, and sometime it wouldn't occur for a month or two of riding. I took it into the local HD dealer who instrumented the bike and couldn't find any problem while it was there. It has no check engine light and no error codes. As soon as I picked it up and rode home it started the momentarily dieing again. It was sort of a momentarily cutout. I replaced the crankshaft position sensor, plug wires, plugs and for a while everything was fine. Now the bike is hard to start, surges, backfires, spits through the aircleaner. I have taken it to a ex Harley Dealer mechanic with 18 yrs experience who kept it for 2 weeks, trying to heat the bike to get it to act up and using a heat gun on the ECM but again couldn't find anything. When I rode it home it was fine, then the following weekend while riding it started the backfiring, spitting through the intake, rough running and dying again. I had to trailer it home. I am getting very frustrated with this unreliable bike, am about to get on the anti Harley side, but really want to keep my bike and enjoy it. I am being told now that I am at the point where I need to start just replacing parts and the ECM should be first. Not an inexpensive solution. Any ideas out there? Please need help! :-)

 

You have a big problem. I am sure it is frustrating. That anti-Harley statement is not going to cut it though. So consider yourself severely chastised.

You did not mention anything about EFI management for your stage 1 mods. H-D download, PCIII, SERT? What did you do? If the answer to that question is, "Nothing," then that is your problem. If you had a download, that may still be your problem. Choose your poison for EFI management (SERT, PCIII, TV2, you name it) aned get your bike tuned on a dyno. That should be your number one priority.

This reply will bump you back up to the top of the forum. Hopefully you will get some good replies from others more who know much more than me.

You are going through a character building experience. You can learn from it, or take your Honda and go home to momma.

 

Longtimegone. Let me assure you I am not a RUB nor a first time HD rider. Quite the opposite. I have been riding for 35 years and this is my 5th Harley. I'm just tired of all the supposedly HD experts and Harley having a technical product they can't support. And my 'momma' probably has ridden more miles than most guys I've seen riding or trying to ride.
And now I ask you, do you know what a Stage 1 is? Yes, it includes a ECM upgrade or flash and was performed by a HD dealer.

 

Well, that could be your problem.

 

Hey nightrider, don't know that I can be of help as far as your problem.
I CAN tell you that despite any recommendations or assurances from the dealer that sold you the Stage 1 upgrade, the Stage 1 MAP is NOT compatable with your air cleaner and pipes. Doesn't mean that it won't run good that way or that it's the source of your problem. I fell for that when I bought my 02 fxsti and had them put on the Ness Big Sucker and V&H Straightshots. The salesman assured me that with the Stage 1 MAP I could run whatever pipes and breather I wanted. For $250... Then when I took it back a year later because the speed sensor was out and they also told me it was running too lean and getting hot. (which might happen with it idleing in a hot shop for a couple of hours and no air but small floor fan...) Then the head mechanic wanted me to buy Screaming Eagle pipes and breather that would match the Stage 1 MAP. After much debate with him and the salesman that sold me the MAP AND a rep from the Company, I learned that dealerships will only load MAPS made for genuine HD parts, anything other than genuine HD parts are not supported and will void the warranty. When I asked about using a PC3 I was informed that it would also void the warranty. BUT I could buy the HD controller similar to the PC3 and have a dyno tuned MAP put on. But that would also void the warranty.
I ended up going with the PC3 and had it dyno tuned by a vendor at Sturgis in 03...
ANYWAY... That's really weird that your bikes problem is intermittant like that. I would guess it's nothing mechanical. Possibly another one of the sensors or a relay that's going bad. Throttle position sensor? I'm not real sure yet just how many sensors are on the things, except too many...
Mine had trouble starting about 6 months after I bought it. After much fiddling with it finally pulled the ECM out and plugged back in. Ran great after that.... Bad or dirty connection I guess. Which was funny because it'd only been pulled once before and that was by the dealer...

Don't give up on your hog yet man. Not that I don't think about jumping ship every once in a while. Mine started acting up yesterday on the way home from the Sparks America rally, had to be escorted home by two friends on Roadstars...

Von Erik

 

Thanks Von. I used to have a PC3 on the bike and thought originally it was bad so I pulled it off and still have the same issues. I have now replaced the coil and system relay with no luck. The bike now acts up regulary when it warms up. Pops out the exhaust, stutters or hesitates at a steady speed and coughs through the intake. I just got it back from HD of North Dallas where they found a fuel line in the tank that had a pin hole in it and thought they had fixed it. As I was riding home it started running so bad I had to park the bike, hitch a ride, get my trailer (good thing I own one) and haul it home. A search of all the harley forums show how wide spread this type of problem is. I am still so suprised HD dealers keep giving back bikes without fully ride testing them. Good thing they don't work on aircraft!! :-)

 

Hey nightrider, sorry your still having that problem. Mine is still acting up too, been riding a bud's Honda while working on mine... Starting to like that Honda...
My 02 Softail is acting a LOT like yours, only it's constant. Every time I've talked to an HD tech or any of the HD diehards at work who think they are techs, all they could say is "It's that damned PCIII, get it off there." I pulled it off a couple of weeks ago and it's still acting as bad or worse.
I can let it idle (sort of) after it finally starts and listen to it. I can hear it pop through the exhaust and the breather every couple of seconds. Going down the road it'll run rough, but run. Then it'll top out and just won't go any further up the RPM range. Backfiring bad. On the way back from Sparks it was 60mph uphill and 70 downhill, all the way. I've replaced the TPS, fuel filter and regulator, as well as both internal lines. Also found a few rusty spots in the tank. Lots of junk in there. Will be resealing the tank shortly. I've checked for exhaust leaks and intake leaks. Checked every related connection in the harness for dirty or loose connections.
I ran it after replacing the fuel filter and such and ran like a bat for about 30 minutes then started acting up a little bit. Then it was a steady decline to back the way it was. I KNOW I cleaned the tank out real good. Couldn't possibly have flaked off more crap and clogged the filter up that fast. Not that the original filter was clogged, I could blow through it.
I've been going through the electrical manual trying to do the diagnostics tests, but there's not a lot I can do with just a volt meter/ohmeter. Changed plugs, resistance tests on the practically new Accel plug wires.
The other night I put an inline spark tester on each cylinder and watched it run. Rear Cylinder sparked up just fine, front one was a pretty weak spark and every couple of seconds it'd light up good and engine would pop or backfire. Tried to do a resistance check on the coil but turns out you can't even do that on the EFI coil without some fancy HD only tool.
But I was pretty sure that had to be it so I crossed my fingers (again) and spent the $96 for a new coil. Still does the same thing.
Spent the last couple of days getting migranes studying the wiring diagrams. Voltage for the front coil tower is off of pin 29 on the ECM. Resistance test on that wire checked out. Did a voltage test on it while the bike was running and it's sending good voltage. 12.5 during startup and jumps to 13.6 while it's running. WTF? Thought maybe it was the plug wire after all (just now) so I pulled the rear wire and put the front wire on the rear cylinder. Sounded like crap on one cylinder but it sparked just fine. Nothing wrong with that wire.
Will see if I can rig up a way to do an extended voltage check off pin 29, see if it's dropping off. Study the diagrams some more and see what else is involved with sending spark to that tower.
4 wires going to the coil. Power, feedback signal, front coil and rear coil. I can't figure out what could possibly be messing with JUST the front cylinder. If it was both it could be any number of things. System relay, ignition switch, any point in between those two in the harness, bad connection with the ignition fuse... I could go on forever.
BUT, it's just the front cylinder. It's a straight shot from ECM pin29 to the coil, Unless there's something else going on I'd think it HAS to be either a bad connection in that wire or a bad ECM. Right?
Does ANYBODY know of ANYTHING else it could be?
Is it possible that if something else was happening, like a bad connection on the front injector or something like that, that the ECM would drop the voltage on the front cylinder?
Is there ANYTHING else I need to look at before I work a few days overtime and order a new ECM?
Hopefully something I can check without a Scanalyzer or HD breakout box or any other HD only tools I can't get my hands on.
I nee

 

Hello Von Erik. And I'm sorry YOU'RE still having problems too. I'm suprised an '02 had rust in the tank! Where in the hell did that come from? Well, I spent all afternoon cleaning the fuse and relay blocks with contact cleaner, cleaning all the wires around the battery area to see if I could see any wire breaks or chaffing. In doing this I checked the battery connections, all were tight, then removed the battery so I could get at the wire bundles located behind it. After doing all the cleaning, I put the battery back and decided to put my PCIIIr back on as one thing I was convinced of was the bike was running too lean, causing the exhaust popping. I also had been spraying water around the intake manifold to see if there was an idle change indicating an intake leak. None found. Then went to ride test to see if there were any miraculous improvements. (I'm grasping at straws here). I rode about 25 miles around the house just in case. Well, it didn't surge like it had been doing but was still popping when I let off the throttle, just no where near as bad. I know I'm going to ride test the heck out it before going very far regarding the surging. Besides, in the past the surging was always intermittent anyway. I don't think I will ever trust this bike again until some tech can show me exactly what is wrong with it. So keep me up with what you are doing and what you find. I will do the same.

 

I posted a message about the rust after I found it. I wrecked my bike in Sturgis in 04 and I remember my paint guy telling me that if I'd let the dealer repair it they'd have just pulled the sheetmetal and put a new set on. Then they'd have sent the damaged metal back to the factory to be repaired and used on a new bike.
I haven't heard that from anybody else but he does a LOT of insurance repair work and I haven't heard anybody say it isn't so...
So when I found the rust I was more ticked than surprised and was wondering how old my tank really is.
And I know what you mean about not trusting your bike.. It's been a good bike and has given me 45,000 miles of good service. And mechanically it's still in great shape. But the harness and all the electronics are starting to show it's "age". Expected but the way the EFI system is over engineered , one simple little problem can keep you parked for months tracking it down because of the way the Company gaurds their diagnostic equipment. They know they can make more money on service than they do the bikes. You can either muddle through by yourself or let the dealer hold your bike hostage for $60 an hour.
So until I can get an aftermarket closed loop system with an aftermarket ignition system and a custom wiring harness, I don't think I'll completely trust my bike again.
And I'd LOVE to have a new Road Glide, but until I can go to Autozone and get all the diagnostic equipment I need to work on it myself I won't buy another one.

 

Yeh Von. I wonder if anyone from Harley ever reads these forums where all these riders are having all these problems and taking thier bikes in to dealers for repairs but getting the bikes back unfixed! I know Harley is thinking they are selling all the bikes they can build, but I was just into 2 dealerships and saw they were discounting down from MSRP to move the remaining 06's and am told there are quite a few. I too was thinking about a new Road Glide but wasn't going to get rid of my softail. Not now!! I went online to contact HD about my problems but found you have to use snail mail to contact them! Imagine that!