I'm hoping any of the very knowledgeable SERT/SEST guys out there can offer their opinion and help.

I recently finished a mild 95" build on my 2005 FI Deluxe. Here is my set-up:

SE Air Cleaner (K&N Filter)
1550 bore on existing jugs
SE Cast 10.25 HC Dome Pistons
Street Port by Big Boyz retained stock valve size
Woods 6-6 Cam with Conversion Kit
.03 Head Gaskets
SE Tapered Adjustable Push Rods
2-1 exhasut (Paughco straight header with Big City Thunder Baffles and straight fishtail extension)

After a very long search, I thought I found a good tuner here in Western Michigan. I asked him all the questions, and he seemed to just naturally nail the answers, so I went with him and gave him a 6 hour budget to dial my bike in after the initial break-in.

I originally had the SERT 5.4.3 and took that in for the tuner to use, but apparently it "short-circuited" during dyno, and so the dealer warranteed the SERT and gave me the SEST. Seemed odd, but I went with it.

Anyway, I picked up the bike and rode around a bit. Seemed to ride well and did put a smile on my face. However, I forgot to get the dyno sheet and map they burned on a CD for me, so I went back in yesterday, and experienced some shock. My dyno shows I am only pushing 88 TQ and 78 HP. The torque curve looks impressive, I'll say that much, but it really falls quickly after 4000, and I thought the Woods 6 would hold up a little longer. HP just flatlines fairly early, which is also very disappointing. I know my exhaust is not optimal, but the results are not what I expected, thinking that I would still get low to mid 90's TQ and mid 80's HP with this set-up.

So, I got home and loaded the map into my SEST. Pretty easy program to navigate. I discover that the tuner used a base map (makes sense) and that is 127HD019.dt0 which is from 2007 and has the following set-up:

SE Air Cleaner
1550 Big Bore
1550 Flat Tops
SE Perf. Heads
SE 203 Cams
SEII Slip Fit Mufflers

I then started to compare my map with the base map. I put the SEST in advanced mode and started with the AF Ratio Table. They were identical! Next, I proceeded to load the VE Front and Rear tables, and they did have what I would consider decent amount of changes, so then I moved on to the front and rear Spark Advance tables. They were also identical! In fact, all the rest of the tables were identical to the base map!

Leaving aside some of the tweaking one can do with warm-up, decel, etc. I'd like to focus on the AFR and Spark Tables. HD canned maps are typically lean, so even if a fair amount of change was made to the VE tables, they're working off the lean AFR, no? I saw a lot of 14.5 entries in the AFR table, and would be willing to show that to anyone in hopes of getting an opinion.

Also, it seems to me that the Woods 6 is going to have significantly different timing than the SE 203, and therefore, why wouldn't the spark tables be modified in any way?

At this point, I feel I paid for 6 hours of tune and got about 2-3, and left a good deal of performance on the table, as well. I would greatly appreciate some input on this, and am willing to share my map with others and make changes myself (I know there is a dedicated forum for map loading). Thanks in advance for any and all input.

Ted

 

I am a TTS guy but our programs are pretty close i believe. Do you have a Closed Loop Bias Table(s)? What are they set at?

For the most part I am leaving my AFR the same as the base map. not much benifit to messing with the AFR's as IMO you want to keep the bike in closed loop for as much as possible. I adjust the CLB tables to gain more fuel while in closed loop. Your VE's would be calibrated to your bike in Closed loop mode, if your CLB tables are lean then your bike would have been calibrated lean (By lean I mean reletively). If you increase your CLB tables you will need to recalibrate your VE table to dial it back in.

 

Thanks, Zacharia, but my bike is a 2005, so no closed loop, so no CLB. It's open loop. Appreciate your input, though.

Don't want to hijack my own thread, but how do you like your LSR's?

Ted

 

These bike that aren't like mine are really throwing me lately...
I have only had the LSR's for about 1 full week now and I am still tuning them with my TTS. Keeping me up late collecting data / riding... haha could be worse right.

First impression. The pipe is flawless, very good quality. Its a good sounding pipe, but I wasn't after sound when I bought it. My wifes V&H short shots are louder, but mine are deeper. I don't Dino so I can't tell you about #'s and becuse I did the trifecta Pipes/AC and TTS all at once I don't know how much of my performance increase is attributed to each.

In Open Loop w/o CLB tables then I agree that it sounds like your guy just adjusted you VE's to the base map and didn't bother tuning for your specific bikes characteristics. On my TTS it takes me about 2-3 hours to get the VE's right and that includes me getting of the bike and sitting at my desk to smooth out the numbers between runs (2-3 runs)

 

Thanks again, Zacharia.

Ted

 

Well, just got off the phone with the GM at my local shop that did the tune. I'm going in to talk to the tuner tomorrow, but their basic line is that they actually tried to make a lot of changes to the spark advance and AFR, but it didn't make any difference. They believe it is my exhaust, which granted is unque, but can't believe that unique. Any further opinions/thoughts before I go in tomorrow from the forum would be greatly appreciated.

Ted

 

Well Ted I hate to be the only one responding, but since I am in the middle of my own tune I find your problem interesting.

Here are my thoughts:
The base map is just supposed to get you close, if the base map from SEST read exactly like your build I wouldn't even question the tune leaving the base variables and just doing some VE calibrations. But since your saying their is a significant differnence in the cams and the pipe we know aint right, I would think that there would be adjustments required to spark advance and AFR to compensate for the variation between your build and the base map.

I wouldn't discount the shops explination, perhaps there is something in you build that is holding your numbers back. I'm not that familiar with different Cam/Head characteristics... next year

Anyways good luck, make them make you understand it before your done talking to them... or realize their feeding you a line of crap and overcharged you services they didn't provide.

 

Thanks again, Zacharia. Spoke with the tuner, as well as the shop mechanic. They indicated they really thought it was my build, which besides my pipes, I think is pretty bulletproof and the parts compliment. The tuner said he doesn't tune the timing tables usually in the "riding" or low throttle position, because of rideability and MPG considerations. He said he did try advancing up to 3 degrees in the "performance range" above 50% throttle, but it actually hurt performance. They had the AFR map of the final run, which I could post, but it averages close to 13 and has a gentle dip in the graph between 3500 and 4000. They did point out that my results could vary up to 10%, depending on the dyno and conditions, which I know is true, but still. Nothing left to do at this point.

Ted

 

FWIW, I had my bike dyno tuned with a SERT by my dealer and it really ran strong but my fuel economy went out the window. I bought a milder tune map from Latus HD done on a bike exactly like mine and did some mild tweaks and it runs great at all speeds but has lower HP/TQ numbers and the fuel economy is 43/48 mpg. So I am sticking with that one.

If your bike runs well and is economical why change it based on the HP numbers? Just sayin.