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TMax w/ Autotune question/concern

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  #1  
Old 04-18-2009, 01:47 PM
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Default TMax w/ Autotune question/concern

The weather in the area has finally cooperated so that I could attempt to tune the bike using map 496.

I updated the firmware, cleared all offsets, and loaded #496. During the IAC Auto procedure, the front AFR went extremely lean at about 250*.



Any idea why this might have happened? Should I be worried? I shut the bike off and then turned the ignition back on and re-linked, the O2 sensors read the appropriate 19.xx AFR.

Any comments, suggestions, explanations excepted.
 

Last edited by Cruisin1966; 04-18-2009 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:59 PM
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It has been a couple of years but I seem to remember that settings is a default when there is an error code or something not connected properly. If it is an accurate AFR reading, I would think it is dangergous.
 
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:49 PM
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A quick look shows that the iac is higher than it should be at that temp. I start at 65 and it's 28 when that hot as an example. You only dropped 10 points between cold and hot. Second thing is rpm is lower than called for, but sometimes it bobbles up and down a bit and you may have copied it at a low point.
When you updated the firmware did you initilize the unit first prior to the iac run? What I do is do the updates, load map if needed and then pull the ecm fuse for a couple of minutes. Put fuse back in and then initialize and then continue with auto iac or heat run at idle. Try it one more time, with a fuse pull first and start at square one is all I can suggest. Leave offsets as they are because auto iac auto clears them anyway.
Ron
 
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Old 04-18-2009, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rbabos
A quick look shows that the iac is higher than it should be at that temp. I start at 65 and it's 28 when that hot as an example. You only dropped 10 points between cold and hot. Second thing is rpm is lower than called for, but sometimes it bobbles up and down a bit and you may have copied it at a low point.
When you updated the firmware did you initilize the unit first prior to the iac run? What I do is do the updates, load map if needed and then pull the ecm fuse for a couple of minutes. Put fuse back in and then initialize and then continue with auto iac or heat run at idle. Try it one more time, with a fuse pull first and start at square one is all I can suggest. Leave offsets as they are because auto iac auto clears them anyway.
Ron
I believe it's higher because the map was originally for a different bike, perhaps '06. I recall from the documentation that the IAC for my 2003 FLSTS (softail 2001-2005) is higher than what this map starts with.

RPM must have been a goofy point when I took the screen print, I would ignore that. It's supposed to be around 960, and it did fluctuate between 925 and 1050.

Yes, I initialized the unit right after I loaded the new map and before I started the IAC Auto.

Originally Posted by rbabos
. . . You only dropped 10 points between cold and hot . . .
I'm confused. When I started the bike the IAC was moved up from the starting point on the map just after the 33.5* mark and then flows down into the 180* plus range. Am I misunderstanding here?

I can definitely try the process again once the bike cools down.
 
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:03 PM
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The gauge should read about 48 more or less instead of 75 if the iac followed the map on heat up. Cold start is 85, according to the map and basic settings and then it drops as temp increases. At least that's how I read it. The map and gauge don't match each other. Check to make sure that the O2sensors are plugged into the correct sockets if you had them removed for some reason, if not obviously you ran it this way before and all was well. I take it that the 19 afr you read stayed fairly constant as opposed to a quick jump up and back close to the target? All connectons solid on the injector?
Ron
 

Last edited by rbabos; 04-18-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rbabos
The gauge should read about 48 more or less instead of 75 if the iac followed the map on heat up. Cold start is 85, according to the map and basic settings and then it drops as temp increases. At least that's how I read it. The map and gauge don't match each other. Check to make sure that the O2sensors are plugged into the correct sockets if you had them removed for some reason, if not obviously you ran it this way before and all was well. I take it that the 19 afr you read stayed fairly constant as opposed to a quick jump up and back close to the target? All connectons solid on the injector?
Ron
Again, I'm a little confused. The yellow line is what was in the map before the IAC Auto. During the process, the points were moved to the current red position. The process must have "smoothed" the numbers to the left of the 51*F mark.

Here's what I read in the manual: "IAC Home Position Tip: For 2001-2005 models, this value generally is between 90 and 115 counts. On 2006 models with a factory throttle body, 58-70 counts is a standard value". When I first fired the cold bike, the head temp was around 51F and immediately the process moved that IAC point up.

O2 sensors haven't been messed with, and are as they should be, front-front, rear-rear.

The 19+ AFR stayed from around 250* all the way until the process finished at 275*, was fine prior to 250*.

Hmmm, not sure about the connections to the injector(s). I'd have to lift the tank before I'd have enough room to check.

I think the bike is cool enough to try again. I'll pull the fuse for a few minutes, re-initialize (30 on, 30 off), and then run the IAC Auto again. If I'm monitoring all this, I should be able to save the session, no?

Thanks for your help. It's always nice to have questions asked so things are thought through.
 
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:44 PM
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I see where the iac started at about 100, but the red block that is now highlighted in the pick that's blue is only 48. However the gauge display for iac position shows 75 I can't explain that. Not one of my better days for figuring out things Same with the front afr. That one cyl doesnt seem to be getting fuel.
One thing you could try is to run it in open loop with the afr overide enabled. This should take the autotune out of the loop. If the lean front afr of 19 appears again, it has to be mechanical . If it holds a close 13 afr during the heat cycle, might be the autotune screwing it. Don't know for sure , just throwing diagnostic ideas at ya.
Ron
 
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:47 PM
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Okay, pulled the ECM fuse for about 10 minutes. Put it back and re-initialized the TMax. Then ran the IAC Auto. No funny business this time with regards to the AFR.

Here's the log of the session should you be interested in it:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cp...2009154158.zip

And a copy of the map I pulled from the bike:
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cp...4-18_IAC01.slk
 
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:39 AM
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Looks fine to me. The only thing I saw strange was the rpm gauge started at over 7k, but dropped when you hit the start button. Probably nothing, but 0 would be the norm. This log shows the iac dropping to match the map value. I see you leaned it from 2560-3548 for better fuel economy in criuse. That's cool. See how it behaves down the road and write the offsets as the tune progresses. That reminds me, I need to do that to mine today for the last time.
Ron
 
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rbabos
Looks fine to me. The only thing I saw strange was the rpm gauge started at over 7k, but dropped when you hit the start button. Probably nothing, but 0 would be the norm. This log shows the iac dropping to match the map value. I see you leaned it from 2560-3548 for better fuel economy in criuse. That's cool. See how it behaves down the road and write the offsets as the tune progresses. That reminds me, I need to do that to mine today for the last time.
Ron
Thanks, I'll see how she progresses. I thought I'd keep the cruise a little leaner (just under 14) as I hate needing to stop on long trips sooner than the Sportsters. No reason a bike with this build can't achieve 42-45 mpg easily, running between 60 and 75 mph.

Hmmmm, interesting, I didn't notice the rpm starting over 7000. I'll look a little closer at it shortly.
 


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