A forum member has Short Shots, SE/AC, XIED's on his softail, "without" any Fuel Mgt, or remap (well, except for the XIED's). Claims that bike run without any problems.

My question is what parameters would a Fuel Mgt system, like TTS or SEST, DLink, or any other system need to adjust for this bike setup to operate properly? I can;t believe the XIED's alone compensate enough for both pipes and high flow A/C....

 

not a tech guy here but I am guessing AFR and timing are 2 important parameters tweaked with a tuner. My 2 cents: After spending $$ to make the bike "breathe better" (i.e. A/C, exhaust), why not get the most out of these mods by also adjusting the tune?

 

Yeah kromdom, that's what I was thinking. I guess my question should have been: Is it harmful to the bike NOT adjusting the tune?

 

read somewhere that the bike's factory tune is able to compensate/accomodate for the A/C and exhaust so with that said, bike should be fine.

DISCLAIMER: this is me simply regurgitating what I have read along the way.

 

Like with any bike with O2 sensors the ECM will tune to near-stoich while in closed-loop mode, but you won't get any change beyond about 50% TP in open-loop mode. Therefore at WOT you will be running too lean which will adversely affect performance and could cause engine damage if run long stretches in open-loop mode. OTOH you'd have to be going very fast, faster than any legal speed limit, to be in open-loop on the highway.

It isn't advisable to change to a free-flowing AC without at least a Stage 1 download from HD, but that is a minimalist approach that will gain relatively little performance and likely no cooling effect at all.

 

Here is what I did to mine: 07 EG Classic, Rinehart true duals, K&N air cleaner. Started with a PCIII to get the heat off the legs and the PC did fine. Dyno was 70.20 hp and 84.96 torque. Now I have a close freind who owns an Indy shop with Dyno Jet Dyno and he is the best around to have one done. I hated the slow starting with the PCIII as it would kick back at times and just sound like it was coming apart. Since all I was after was the heat issue I started looking at the XIED's. Read all about stock ECM compensating for A/C and pipes but Harley is still fairly old school on the ecm so I did some Dyno testing. Rineharts and STOCK A/C air fuel ratio was 14.6 which is factory setting. Rineharts and K&N A/C the AFR went up to 14.7/.8 -- just way to lean. Installed the XIED's with Rineharts and K&N A/C and AFR was 13.8, HP 65.11 and torque 70.20 but no heat issue and gas mileage came back to 40ish on the road and it starts just like nothing has been done. So my bottom line is XIED's are great to richen the AFR and solve the heat. If and when I do any engine mod's then I will go with the SERT or PCV with auto tune. Sorry this was so long but I did alot of "testing" and have proven by dyno real information.

 

So,
Would you say that the Rinehart True duals could be ran with the stock AC and no other ECM mods and still be OK, at least in your case? This is exactly the same boat I am in right now and the bike seems to run fine and I would like to just leave it alone but everyone says you have to run some kind of fuel management system like SERT or PCIII.

 

The dyno run showed the same AFR with stock pipes and stock a/c as it did with the Rineharts and stock a/c. Keep in mind the exhaust does not change the fuel input or the air input only the scavange of the burnt gases. In my humble opinon the afr of 14.6 is very lean and causes higher cylinder/exhaust temps. In my many years of jet engine work every degree you can cool an engine puts more life in it. The XIED's are a 100 bucks and that IMO is worth it for the cooling beneifit.

 

The XIED's do not help. They make it appear that the bike is running leaner than it is by modifying the signal from the O2 sensors. The O2 sensors are basically a battery and produce a voltage proportional to the afr. Lower voltages are higher afrs. The XIED's are a voltage divider that lowers the voltage into the ecm relative to the voltage off the O2 sensors, i.e. they read leaner.

The ac and exhaust actually make the bike run leaner. So lean the adjustment needed to the fueling is beyond the limits to adjustment programmed into the ecm. Making it appear even leaner does not help. Make it appear lean enough and you get a dtc code off the ecm for low voltage, i.e. lean, on the O2 sensor. If an object is on a shelf just beyond your reach then raising the shelf does not help. Raising you, lower the shelf helps, but raising the shelf does not help. That's, effectively, what the XIED's are doing. They are making the goal even more unattainable.

 

I've been running Supertrapp 2:1 pipe, K&N Stage 1 AC, & XIED for most of a year with no problems. I think I could run it like this for years with no problem because I live in an urban area and do little high RPM riding. I don't understand the comments slamming XIED. It has limited application, but it works as advertised. The maker does not claim its as good as PCIII, SERT, or TTS. If I left my pipes and AC stock, XIED is all I would ever want.

That said, I'm planning on a TTS upgrade this Spring for better cooling + EITMS, more power, and better mileage.