Are there two maps one for open loop mode and one for closed loop mode?
#11
I didn't mean tune as in dyno tune, but rather using a exhaust sniffer to get a reasonable afr. That's easier done on a dyno than on the street. There is a limit to how far the ecm will adjust fueling. I don't know what that limit is, but say it's 5%. So if you're up above above 15.4 it can't bring it down to 14.6. If you add 5% then it kinda, sorta, maybe has 5% to play with again.
Reading the actual afr you could add fuel until it can no longer hold 14.6. You could then remove fuel until it can no longer hold 14.6. Set it between those two extremes and it has the most room for adjustment either way. Where that point is going to be is going to vary by throttle position and engine speed though. You might be able to get it down to where it's reasonable though. You can also find the point at which the ecm quits even trying, i.e. sudden, drastic change in afr. You have to be able to read the afr you're actually burning though.
As Bob says there's a limit to just how much you can expect from this device. I'm assuming cost is an issue. If it isn't then get a PC, SERT or TTS. Or just go pay the dealer to download the Stage 1 map onto the bike which is the cheapest option.
PS: As far as open loop afr it's whatever the fuel table says to the degree the ve tables are correct. With the Stage 1 download that's as low as 12.5. The reason the afr drops is lower afr's, within limits, are more power. It's just not an efficient way to gain power, i.e. it's a greater increase in fuel than the increase in power. Opening the throttle more is generally a more efficient way to gain power. At WOT and high rpms the assumption is you wouldn't be there if fuel efficiency was your primary concern at the moment.
Reading the actual afr you could add fuel until it can no longer hold 14.6. You could then remove fuel until it can no longer hold 14.6. Set it between those two extremes and it has the most room for adjustment either way. Where that point is going to be is going to vary by throttle position and engine speed though. You might be able to get it down to where it's reasonable though. You can also find the point at which the ecm quits even trying, i.e. sudden, drastic change in afr. You have to be able to read the afr you're actually burning though.
As Bob says there's a limit to just how much you can expect from this device. I'm assuming cost is an issue. If it isn't then get a PC, SERT or TTS. Or just go pay the dealer to download the Stage 1 map onto the bike which is the cheapest option.
PS: As far as open loop afr it's whatever the fuel table says to the degree the ve tables are correct. With the Stage 1 download that's as low as 12.5. The reason the afr drops is lower afr's, within limits, are more power. It's just not an efficient way to gain power, i.e. it's a greater increase in fuel than the increase in power. Opening the throttle more is generally a more efficient way to gain power. At WOT and high rpms the assumption is you wouldn't be there if fuel efficiency was your primary concern at the moment.
Last edited by LilBudyWizer; 03-21-2009 at 10:58 PM.
#12
When the SERT sees, "open loop", which is anything outside the 14.6 AFR with mine, the ECM ( the way I understand) "calculates" the AFR. It uses, looks to me, a lot of different tables to try and get what you want. VE tables, front and rear, is one of the main tables, got to be.. Others are Bias, Engine size and Injector size.
All this is why a good tuner is more that just a parts changer. Damn near a artform. Gotta have the knack.
And there are all kinds of other things to thing about. Cold starting, hot starting, 0-2% throdle open at 2-5 MPH, acelerating , world of things to think about.
Way harder to tune for the real world than racing.
I remember Mario Andready(?) said, when asked how he drove in a race answered, "All the way to the floor either accelerator or brake petal, no in-between." Easy to tune for that.
All this is why a good tuner is more that just a parts changer. Damn near a artform. Gotta have the knack.
And there are all kinds of other things to thing about. Cold starting, hot starting, 0-2% throdle open at 2-5 MPH, acelerating , world of things to think about.
Way harder to tune for the real world than racing.
I remember Mario Andready(?) said, when asked how he drove in a race answered, "All the way to the floor either accelerator or brake petal, no in-between." Easy to tune for that.
Last edited by Old Gunny; 03-22-2009 at 10:56 AM.
#13
The race fueler is exactly what I want for what I am trying to achieve; to get a little extra fuel to the bike in a cheap way. This way the bike will not run so lean and I think that about 5% increase of fuel though out the whole map will not hurt the performance of the bike The question is not what a race tuner (sert) is, but in closed loop, based on the inputs from the o2 sensors will the ECM try to adjust itself for the extra fuel the race fueler is adding. I do not think that dyno tune would do much at all, but I do think you can use a dyno to see if you are running rich or lean and get a starting point. Right now my bike seems to be running cooler and the performance is good; no dead spots and no stumbling.
When the bike is at idle (like at a stop light) will the ECM go in to closed loop mode? This is a question that I would like to find the answer to. Out here in calif. The summers are hot and the traffic is very bad stop and go at every stop light. This is one reason I am trying to add fuel to the bike, it is not unusual to see my oil temp at 260 to 280
I have tried them all pc3, sert, thundermax, stage one download, and ied or what ever it is called. In my opinion the sert is the best for the bike since it was designed for the bike and it utilize all the sensor that are place though out the bike. My sert worked great until my laptop died when I was downloading a change to the map. When this happen it fried my ECM, had to get a new ECM but did not want to spend the money on a new sert.
When the bike is at idle (like at a stop light) will the ECM go in to closed loop mode? This is a question that I would like to find the answer to. Out here in calif. The summers are hot and the traffic is very bad stop and go at every stop light. This is one reason I am trying to add fuel to the bike, it is not unusual to see my oil temp at 260 to 280
I have tried them all pc3, sert, thundermax, stage one download, and ied or what ever it is called. In my opinion the sert is the best for the bike since it was designed for the bike and it utilize all the sensor that are place though out the bike. My sert worked great until my laptop died when I was downloading a change to the map. When this happen it fried my ECM, had to get a new ECM but did not want to spend the money on a new sert.
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