OK.... so I read a bit, and went ahead and ordered the green box. The RB Racing pipes come with bungs to mount the O2 sensors. I didn't know if I could get away with choosing a map and trying to come close and get it to run a bit better. Can I get away with running a pre-existing map? Do I need to buy and install O2 sensors? Which sensors do you guys recommend? There are channels on the Green TTS Mastertune to connect the O2 sensors to.... what connector is used to go from the O2 sensors to the TTS ports?

Again... I'm slowly learning the search function here. If any of this stuff has been covered previously, links would be appreciated.

Almost forgot to add.... Can I stick with my older ECU and use the green TTS unit to load maps without ading the expense of the O2 sensors? should I send the Green TTS box back and have them send me a Blue one? If I go with the Blue Box, will it be able to load maps and do some tuning without the input of O2 sensors, or should I go ahead and plum and connect the O2 sensors? Will I need to go with a newer(05 and newer) ECU?
You guys ROCK..... Thanks !!!

 

Unless you purchase a newer ECM you are headed in the wrong direction.

Again, you have a 2002 ECM that will not work with 02 sensors. You need a 2005 or later ECM to use 02 sensors.



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Mr Wiz....

First off.... I really really appreciate you guy's patience with me... I'm just tripping over my beginners understanding of the wonderful world of computer controlled fuel systems...

I'm really not married to using the O2 sensors. The Websites all list the green and blue boxes as compatible with my 2002 FLHTPI. That's a point of confusion for me. A couple posts back it was stated that the green box will perform all the communications/ software functions that the blue box does. Will the green box help me to install a pre-selected map to my 2002 ECU? I think my mind considers that to be a stage 1 upgrade ( that would help my bike to run smoother and more efficiently with the S&S aircleaner and RB Racing pipes I am planning to install...)

- Again, I'm planning to stick with the above mods and trying to follow the TTS for dummies guidelines to get my bike running smoothly and efficiently. After a fair amount of playing around with the above setup, I might add cams to maybe increase a bit of power and torque. after the cams, I might try my hand at more maps. This would probably be the point I would try adding in the O2 sensors ( the O2 sensors will alow monitoring engine VE and AFRs , which will aid in fine tuning< I think??) and to do so I would probably have to upgrade the ECU to the 2005 version.

OR.....

Being new to this game, am I painting myself into the corner, and should I switch the Green Box TTS for a Blue Box TTS and forget about the new ECU
and the O2 sensors?
Thanks again for your help in getting a Shovelhead guy get my toes wet in the New Electronic world!!!

 

No worries...

All you need is the blue box and an experienced Dyno Tuner (professional person) to tune your bike. The Pro will use his own 02 sensors to tune your bike which will be in Open Loop. Your ECM doesn't use Closed Loop and can't fine tune your bike as you ride and key on-key off.

Don't forget to purchase the 02 sensor plugs since you won't be using 02 sensors.

Either the Green or the Blue TTS will talk to your ECM however you purchased more features with the Green than you really need. As stated in most discussion about starting calibrations... Do not use a calibration that is meant for a larger motor. Start small then have your bike professionally tuned.



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Many Thanks Wiz!!!!

 

green or blue will be able to program your ecm. to tune with wide bands (because the older ECM can't use them) you will need some method of getting the wideband o2 data. if the tune is being done with TTS and TTS will be recording the wide band data, you need and external bit of equipment to interface the wide bands to the TTS green. (a DTT WEGO or AEM interface). these will translate the wb data to an analog voltage that the green expects.
if you are having a tuner do the work, a blue module is all you need. if he has a green module he can use that to record the data and use the blue to actually program. (this is how i do it).

aside: Steve explained to me that while it may be possible to retrofit a 2002-2003 to use a 2005 ECM and convert to closed loop operation, they never took the time to try and do it. 2004 is when they started using the J1850 bus to send data around to the other parts of the bike vs discrete wiring.
i have a 2005 ECM in my 2003 with a 127 cal and it works well. this applies to 2002 as well. one of these days i may grab an 05 ECM with a 176 cal installed and see if i can get it working on my 03. i think it will work, i just didn't have a definite so didn't want to experiment on my daily when it took me 5 weeks to get a new ECM.

also for completeness, there was an early and late J1850 ECM before they went to the later CANbus ECM. the early J1850 has less capability and is less forgiving (calibration-wise with very different builds than stock) than the later J1850. with what you are planning it sounds like you'll be fine with the original ECM you have. save yourself some $ and just get the blue and a dyno tune (if the tuner has a way to record wideband o2 data.)

 

Just a heads up- Mastertune now has support for the 2020 RDRS enabled touring bikes.

 

Quick update: I contacted Robert at RB Racing and he swapped the green tuner for the Blue... so I'll be going with the blue...I'm looking forward to getting the RB Racing pipes and S&S aircleaner installed... Then I'll be checking out the maps you guys are talking about...

I understand the concept of starting small...everyone and their brother wants to drop an 850 Holley on a small block chevy... no one wants to hear that their streeter will run better with a 600....

 

660 Center squirt was my fav....

 

LOL... Always a nice setup, Wiz... I used to advocate a lot for the 780 vacuum secondaries just because one of my buddies had a nice running 350 in a Vega with that set up... The I started hangin out with a couple of guys who actually had real fast cars! slapping a bigger carb on things wasn't their plan...
I learned how to get a good ball park estimate for how much CFM a carb should flow to properly feed an engine, by using this formula:

ci x rpm x ve/ 3456= cfm

So, Wiz, when you noted to use the calibrations for a smaller engine, that just rang true with the type of build I'm looking to do. I definitely want to keep my build on the milder side, not having any expectation of making a high revving high horsepower monster engine...
I've been watching my tach all season long to see where I usually ride , RPM wise... I can definitely live between 1000-4000 RPMs Smooth power in that range is my goal....

I totally appreciate all you guys input... I think I'm on the right path!

Hoooraaaaah! You guys rock!