TTS Mastertune Information
#5081
05-27-2014, 05:48 PM
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
#5082
05-27-2014, 06:03 PM
Everybody seems to really worry about filling out VEs from 2000 and up. A smoother riding bike can be made by also concentrating on 2000 and down. With, say, a TPS tune, it's hard to fill out the, say, 1250 row, but should try to get as much as possible. By 1500, the row SHOULD have the purple square. Same with 1750. And... the way that is done is get a very solid set of runs at 2000 where you are really quite sure you have good data and good VEs. Copy paste that VE row to 1750. Tune THAT rpm the best as possible, then copy paste from 1750 to 1500, etc etc etc.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
Good to know.
Do you have an opinion on some of the TTS tuning 'guides' ('TTS for Dummies', etc.) that are floating around the web? Am I better off not deviating from Steve Cole's TTS tuning manual?
When DIY/Street tuning with a monitor, are there any areas (timing, EGR, etc.) that are best left alone?
Finally, I have the old/black TTS dongle (for two bikes). Am I (the typical DIY'er) missing anything by not having the new/blue TTS?
Thanks, once more.
#5083
05-27-2014, 07:21 PM
Although I know this is directed to John, I'll uninvitedly (yeah I know it's not a word) chime in here.
TTS for Dummies is a very scaled down version of the TTS manual in layman's terms. Is it "THE" TTS bible, by no means but it's a damn good start for those without knowledge. What's in it is what's in the TTS manual just scaled down to what you need to know to get started on your adventure without spending 2 days reading an outdated manual.
You're better off doing what makes you comfortable in understanding what you're doing. IMO that means the TTS for Dummies to start with, then read and read and read the TTS manual.
Not sure I follow you on the monitor/egr/timing/etc. comment. Having a monitor displaying data doesn't have anything to do with EGR/TIMING settings however is real helpful for when you do change something to see immediately after the flash on the road what you've done vs going back home and connecting your data recorded to a computer and then head out again. Having a monitor on your handlebars while tuning is a VERY dangerous thing however IMO you can't get any better without a Dyno. Just makes everything so much easier when you can see exactly what you're doing. And for the record I do the same thing with a Surface 2 when tuning.
Black vs Blue:
Black VCI support has pretty much gone by the wayside as it cannot be updated.
Blue VCI supports flight recorder mode which allows to record data directly to the VCI without the need for a computer/monitor on the bike (see monitor comment above). In addition when in flight recorder mode, you can ride to the local bar 20 miles away, kill the bike, go have a few Dr Peppers, get back on the bike and ride another 150 miles to the burger joint, get back on the bike and head back home all the while the VCI is still recording data. You can do this for days. Then when you're ready to upload to computer, you have the ability to combine (can't remember the total number of DM3 files at one time) all the DM3 files to generate your next tune file.
Blue VCI captures more data for timing adjustments.
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with timing settings, I think it's called Timing Assist.
Blue VCI stores your starting OEM calibration to the device for safe keeping
Blue VCI stores the last flashed tune file to the device
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with proper EGR settings.
I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten
TTS for Dummies is a very scaled down version of the TTS manual in layman's terms. Is it "THE" TTS bible, by no means but it's a damn good start for those without knowledge. What's in it is what's in the TTS manual just scaled down to what you need to know to get started on your adventure without spending 2 days reading an outdated manual.
You're better off doing what makes you comfortable in understanding what you're doing. IMO that means the TTS for Dummies to start with, then read and read and read the TTS manual.
Not sure I follow you on the monitor/egr/timing/etc. comment. Having a monitor displaying data doesn't have anything to do with EGR/TIMING settings however is real helpful for when you do change something to see immediately after the flash on the road what you've done vs going back home and connecting your data recorded to a computer and then head out again. Having a monitor on your handlebars while tuning is a VERY dangerous thing however IMO you can't get any better without a Dyno. Just makes everything so much easier when you can see exactly what you're doing. And for the record I do the same thing with a Surface 2 when tuning.
Black vs Blue:
Black VCI support has pretty much gone by the wayside as it cannot be updated.
Blue VCI supports flight recorder mode which allows to record data directly to the VCI without the need for a computer/monitor on the bike (see monitor comment above). In addition when in flight recorder mode, you can ride to the local bar 20 miles away, kill the bike, go have a few Dr Peppers, get back on the bike and ride another 150 miles to the burger joint, get back on the bike and head back home all the while the VCI is still recording data. You can do this for days. Then when you're ready to upload to computer, you have the ability to combine (can't remember the total number of DM3 files at one time) all the DM3 files to generate your next tune file.
Blue VCI captures more data for timing adjustments.
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with timing settings, I think it's called Timing Assist.
Blue VCI stores your starting OEM calibration to the device for safe keeping
Blue VCI stores the last flashed tune file to the device
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with proper EGR settings.
I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten
Last edited by UltraNutZ; 05-27-2014 at 07:47 PM.
#5084
05-27-2014, 07:29 PM
Everybody seems to really worry about filling out VEs from 2000 and up. A smoother riding bike can be made by also concentrating on 2000 and down. With, say, a TPS tune, it's hard to fill out the, say, 1250 row, but should try to get as much as possible. By 1500, the row SHOULD have the purple square. Same with 1750. And... the way that is done is get a very solid set of runs at 2000 where you are really quite sure you have good data and good VEs. Copy paste that VE row to 1750. Tune THAT rpm the best as possible, then copy paste from 1750 to 1500, etc etc etc.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
Right now that's my biggest problem with the FP3 and my 14 limited. I was running their canned map since I have all the V&H equipment (Power Duals with Monster ovals and SE breather)
The canned map runs good except for a little loud scavenging with a little louder than normal what I call grumbled "Pops" and rough Idle along with a little rough throttle up through 2200rpm (It seems like it has "Misses" if you hold the throttle anywhere between 1800-2200rpm) I did an auto tune on it, but it still exists.
I've tried to get the VE tables right in that area and was going to play with the AFR to see if i could tune it out, but it's hard to tune those VE's right. Also....and I don't know if this makes a difference, The TPS at closed reads 4-5%. I called V&H and I got "it's normal for TBW bikes. Wouldn't that throw the map off (even an auto tuned one?) I remember the old Power commanders had a TPS reset, but not on this.
I really should have stuck with TTS, but I knew I was getting their setup and it seemed that the FP3 was pretty tuneable compared to their basic FP.
My 2012 limited was dyno tuned by a good guy down in Bethlehem Pa with my TTS, so I'm probably spoiled now
Last edited by Smittyjf; 05-27-2014 at 07:34 PM.
#5085
05-27-2014, 07:53 PM
Club Member
Everybody seems to really worry about filling out VEs from 2000 and up. A smoother riding bike can be made by also concentrating on 2000 and down. With, say, a TPS tune, it's hard to fill out the, say, 1250 row, but should try to get as much as possible. By 1500, the row SHOULD have the purple square. Same with 1750. And... the way that is done is get a very solid set of runs at 2000 where you are really quite sure you have good data and good VEs. Copy paste that VE row to 1750. Tune THAT rpm the best as possible, then copy paste from 1750 to 1500, etc etc etc.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
With a monitor, maybe it can be done? AT least somewhat. My biggest surprise was when everybody says don't mess with cells you will never hit on the street? When you DO hit those areas, the rest of the whole tune is improved.
Some of the other little things would be HARD to duplicate DIY and a Monitor, like looking at the bar graph on top of the Histogram, while it is being made. That bar graph helps a LOT to insure you are hitting all of the ranges possible within a cell. There is, in reality, no such thing as the 'cell' inside of the ECM. Take 50KPA. In reality that is 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, and 59 Kpa. If you can at least touch upon each one, the tune is better.
Why work areas you don't ride? Because the less the ECM has to work the happier it is and the smoother your motor will run. If the VE numbers are all over the place then the ECM will have to make more calculations. There is a time lag for these adjustments to finally hit the motor and out the exhaust.
Truk is saying to get all you can get in the 2000 area then paste them to the lower RPM areas. This is very acceptable for "smoothing" out the VE's in the areas you find so difficult to get.
How do you use smoothing and why. Sharp peaks and valley's in the 3D graph for the VE's are bad. Smooth graph lines are good. If can't/don't/ just would rather not try to hit the areas not ridden in you can use smoothing to your advantage. Start with the 6000 and 7000 RPM tables. Adjust them while you are looking at the 3D graph. You can view the graph smooth out nicely so use this visual as practice.
Another clarification would be the "averaging" of the table cells. The 50 kPa column takes over at 45.5 kPa and runs through 55. The 60 column takes over at 55.5 and runs through 65. It is the same averaging from top to bottom such as 4000 RPM's takes over at 3550 RPM's and runs through 4500 RPM's
Why doesn't the TTS for Dummies give all this information? The TTS/D was written for the new operator. It is easy to read and comprehend without the technical conversations that Steve drowns the TTS manual with. Some times less is more. Get the basics and learn "IF" you want to learn how to tune better, further and more precisely.
Last edited by Mr. Wizard; 05-29-2014 at 06:16 AM.
#5086
05-28-2014, 11:59 PM
Cruiser
Looking for experienced TTS advice please
Question for experienced TTS users….
I’m installing an AMS 105 kit, TW57H cam, AN BS air cleaner, and keeping stock exhaust in my 09 FLTR (self-install).
Will be using TTS tuner.
I called TTS and Steve suggested using DUH-205-03 starting map. This isn’t exact since it’s for 103 w/SE 255 cam, free flowing AC, and race exhaust.
I plan on using the 3rd gear 30-to-60 MPH x 10 break in procedure and would like to have the fuel mixture reasonably close for this.
Looking for advice on how to get the fuel mixture close enough for initial break-in, then the subsequent 100 mile ride to the dyno tuner.
Thanks for any advice.
I’m installing an AMS 105 kit, TW57H cam, AN BS air cleaner, and keeping stock exhaust in my 09 FLTR (self-install).
Will be using TTS tuner.
I called TTS and Steve suggested using DUH-205-03 starting map. This isn’t exact since it’s for 103 w/SE 255 cam, free flowing AC, and race exhaust.
I plan on using the 3rd gear 30-to-60 MPH x 10 break in procedure and would like to have the fuel mixture reasonably close for this.
Looking for advice on how to get the fuel mixture close enough for initial break-in, then the subsequent 100 mile ride to the dyno tuner.
Thanks for any advice.
#5087
05-29-2014, 06:23 AM
Club Member
Question for experienced TTS users….
I’m installing an AMS 105 kit, TW57H cam, AN BS air cleaner, and keeping stock exhaust in my 09 FLTR (self-install).
Will be using TTS tuner.
I called TTS and Steve suggested using DUH-205-03 starting map. This isn’t exact since it’s for 103 w/SE 255 cam, free flowing AC, and race exhaust.
I plan on using the 3rd gear 30-to-60 MPH x 10 break in procedure and would like to have the fuel mixture reasonably close for this.
Looking for advice on how to get the fuel mixture close enough for initial break-in, then the subsequent 100 mile ride to the dyno tuner.
Thanks for any advice.
I’m installing an AMS 105 kit, TW57H cam, AN BS air cleaner, and keeping stock exhaust in my 09 FLTR (self-install).
Will be using TTS tuner.
I called TTS and Steve suggested using DUH-205-03 starting map. This isn’t exact since it’s for 103 w/SE 255 cam, free flowing AC, and race exhaust.
I plan on using the 3rd gear 30-to-60 MPH x 10 break in procedure and would like to have the fuel mixture reasonably close for this.
Looking for advice on how to get the fuel mixture close enough for initial break-in, then the subsequent 100 mile ride to the dyno tuner.
Thanks for any advice.
Since you are not going to find an exact library calibration you should start with the calibration that is as close as possible. That would be the calibration that Steve suggested. Follow TTS procedure by doing cam tune first, VTune second. Soon you will have a calibration good enough to take your ride to the dyno tuner in a few hours.
#5088
05-29-2014, 11:03 AM
Although I know this is directed to John, I'll uninvitedly (yeah I know it's not a word) chime in here.
TTS for Dummies is a very scaled down version of the TTS manual in layman's terms. Is it "THE" TTS bible, by no means but it's a damn good start for those without knowledge. What's in it is what's in the TTS manual just scaled down to what you need to know to get started on your adventure without spending 2 days reading an outdated manual.
You're better off doing what makes you comfortable in understanding what you're doing. IMO that means the TTS for Dummies to start with, then read and read and read the TTS manual.
Not sure I follow you on the monitor/egr/timing/etc. comment. Having a monitor displaying data doesn't have anything to do with EGR/TIMING settings however is real helpful for when you do change something to see immediately after the flash on the road what you've done vs going back home and connecting your data recorded to a computer and then head out again. Having a monitor on your handlebars while tuning is a VERY dangerous thing however IMO you can't get any better without a Dyno. Just makes everything so much easier when you can see exactly what you're doing. And for the record I do the same thing with a Surface 2 when tuning.
Black vs Blue:
Black VCI support has pretty much gone by the wayside as it cannot be updated.
Blue VCI supports flight recorder mode which allows to record data directly to the VCI without the need for a computer/monitor on the bike (see monitor comment above). In addition when in flight recorder mode, you can ride to the local bar 20 miles away, kill the bike, go have a few Dr Peppers, get back on the bike and ride another 150 miles to the burger joint, get back on the bike and head back home all the while the VCI is still recording data. You can do this for days. Then when you're ready to upload to computer, you have the ability to combine (can't remember the total number of DM3 files at one time) all the DM3 files to generate your next tune file.
Blue VCI captures more data for timing adjustments.
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with timing settings, I think it's called Timing Assist.
Blue VCI stores your starting OEM calibration to the device for safe keeping
Blue VCI stores the last flashed tune file to the device
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with proper EGR settings.
I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten
TTS for Dummies is a very scaled down version of the TTS manual in layman's terms. Is it "THE" TTS bible, by no means but it's a damn good start for those without knowledge. What's in it is what's in the TTS manual just scaled down to what you need to know to get started on your adventure without spending 2 days reading an outdated manual.
You're better off doing what makes you comfortable in understanding what you're doing. IMO that means the TTS for Dummies to start with, then read and read and read the TTS manual.
Not sure I follow you on the monitor/egr/timing/etc. comment. Having a monitor displaying data doesn't have anything to do with EGR/TIMING settings however is real helpful for when you do change something to see immediately after the flash on the road what you've done vs going back home and connecting your data recorded to a computer and then head out again. Having a monitor on your handlebars while tuning is a VERY dangerous thing however IMO you can't get any better without a Dyno. Just makes everything so much easier when you can see exactly what you're doing. And for the record I do the same thing with a Surface 2 when tuning.
Black vs Blue:
Black VCI support has pretty much gone by the wayside as it cannot be updated.
Blue VCI supports flight recorder mode which allows to record data directly to the VCI without the need for a computer/monitor on the bike (see monitor comment above). In addition when in flight recorder mode, you can ride to the local bar 20 miles away, kill the bike, go have a few Dr Peppers, get back on the bike and ride another 150 miles to the burger joint, get back on the bike and head back home all the while the VCI is still recording data. You can do this for days. Then when you're ready to upload to computer, you have the ability to combine (can't remember the total number of DM3 files at one time) all the DM3 files to generate your next tune file.
Blue VCI captures more data for timing adjustments.
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with timing settings, I think it's called Timing Assist.
Blue VCI stores your starting OEM calibration to the device for safe keeping
Blue VCI stores the last flashed tune file to the device
Blue VCI will soon have the ability to assist with proper EGR settings.
I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten
black vci, or it just does nothing for me? Also, should I be using legacy software or v-tune2, ect. Thanks
By the way, it pisses me off that I can't upgrade from black to blue for any amount, other than chuckin the one I have, and putting out another 400+ for the newer one. That's bull.
#5089
05-29-2014, 12:17 PM
Club Member
Are you telling me that i should not be updating because i have the original
black vci, or it just does nothing for me? Also, should I be using legacy software or v-tune2, ect. Thanks
By the way, it pisses me off that I can't upgrade from black to blue for any amount, other than chuckin the one I have, and putting out another 400+ for the newer one. That's bull.
black vci, or it just does nothing for me? Also, should I be using legacy software or v-tune2, ect. Thanks
By the way, it pisses me off that I can't upgrade from black to blue for any amount, other than chuckin the one I have, and putting out another 400+ for the newer one. That's bull.
Yes, you should use the new software updates for the black box also. You may not be able to use some of the tools but you should keep up with all the updates.
Not to worry about a dongle upgrade. As I've said before, TTS is working on an upgrade from the black to blue box. All their time is being spent on getting the new software updates and VT3 done. Then they will publish an upgrade program soon.
#5090
05-29-2014, 01:23 PM
Not Nutz... well maybe I am just a bit but...
Yes, you should use the new software updates for the black box also. You may not be able to use some of the tools but you should keep up with all the updates.
Not to worry about a dongle upgrade. As I've said before, TTS is working on an upgrade from the black to blue box. All their time is being spent on getting the new software updates and VT3 done. Then they will publish an upgrade program soon.
Yes, you should use the new software updates for the black box also. You may not be able to use some of the tools but you should keep up with all the updates.
Not to worry about a dongle upgrade. As I've said before, TTS is working on an upgrade from the black to blue box. All their time is being spent on getting the new software updates and VT3 done. Then they will publish an upgrade program soon.
Sorry I missed your post about upgrade software coming. Makes me feel a little better.