I am posting along the way, in this thread, some of the differences between some of the various tuners.

I really like TTS the BEST, for sure. Knowing the HOW the various tuners work, the members here can make better decisions for themselves.

Cam Data. Some around here think that TTS sells 'fluff' with using MT8s. That is simply for the folks that do NOT know the 'how' an ECM actually functions.

Cam data is NOT fluff. That's the first to understand. Cam Data does Not tell when the injector to fire, but it actually DOES in a round about way.

First question on all being equal, WHY is there even something called 'cam data' on TTS? What is there for a new/ different 'cam' adjusts in an engine? It controls the valves mechanically. Why have a software deal for that?!!! Ever figure out HOW an injector fires?

Off of the MAP signal... just like it does on start up. Start up works withOUT a cam sensor by timing the crank within 720* (the four stokes of an engine) and the MAP sensor tells WHICH is the compression stroke, by reading the intake stroke.. Too fast for us to read with anything less than a scope, but MAP reads Low/high/low/high... from whenever the intake opens.

With me so far?

The ECM DOES adjust for new cam timing points. Or else the big *** cams we have all ran would NEVER have run for MT6 and MT7 base cals, right? If a cam has an close of like 20* and then we install a cam with a 60* close... the engine would NOT run right at all, unless the engine KNEW when the valve opened. It KNOWS from the MAP signal.

So... since this IS self adjusting, what is the cam tool really used for? Let's say that an ECM can adjust the MAP signal around by 90*. Made up number, but you get the point. EVERY time the engine is started, the ECM has to do a search of the MAP signal to determine the WHEN to open the injector, AND the when to close the injector. And... with the ECM having to sort this out within a 90* window, there WILL be some 'warble' of the injector signals, due to the small window of error of the MAP signal. Right? It just HAS to be so, if you have EVER swapped cams and 'tooned' a Harley afterwards. It DOES self adjust. The 'greatest' thinks so, so it MUST be true... and it IS!

The cam tool, IMHO, shortens that 90* window to simply a window that is way smaller, for the ECMs ability to self adjust. So, instead of say... 90*s of window, there could be 10*s of window. Can you see how this would stabilize fuel delivery? And... yes, that window in the ECM could be 15* and the cam tool could shorten the 'window' to like 5*.

There IS a reason for the cam tool to have break points. 4 for open and 3 for close. See how it works? 1 and 3 is truly a HUGE dwell time. More normally the cams I see are like a 3 open and a 2 close. My 120r, tho has a 3 close.... because the duration is kind of LONG as compared to a Stage 2 cam, right?

AND... if the ECM has control of timing of the injector AND how long the injector stays HOT... that amount of time would be the 'dwell' of the injector. Since we have BOTH open AND close... of the cam, the cam tool from TTS will adjust the dwell along with the beginning of the pulse.

So... remember that there ARE like 120+ points that CAN be adjusted if using the full ability of the DELPHI tuner.... not TTS, PV, SEPST, but the ACTUAL developmental tool used to adjust the ECM as used by the MOCO. I have personally played with this actual Harley Delphi tuner. Easy ones to remember are that the timing has changes for EVERY gear. We do NOT get to adjust these things because Harley Tuner MFGs are NOT open like HP Tuner and LS Edit.... the tuners used to tune Chevies. Like the 427 in the Z06 and that ECM in a little Cobalt. SAME basic ECM.

Using LSEdit, and HP tuners with LS3 and LS7 Chevy engines... shows that the injector firing AND dwell IS very much controllable, with the PROPER software. This is NOT something that the powers that be whom make Harley Tuners include in their packages. There will ALSO be adjustability in the window of on and off for the injector.

Another thing to think about is the base calibration. Since we now ALL know that the PV does NOT adjust anything but whats on the screen... not only is the cruise control stuck on stock 85mph, but other, more important things are also stuck on 'stock'. IMHO, TTS has the BEST base calibrations. That is BECAUSE the base cals are actually adjusted, using those 100 tables we have NO access to.

Yes, I AM a big fan of TTS. I like to tune. PV works great and SEPST does too, to a point... but TTS does NOT use the 'stock' settings like the other tuners... even my beloved Direct Link still uses the stock settings.

I am doing like a series of things I know, about tuning and the differences between tuners, because when I tell someone that a PV is good enough... it IS! And... when I tell a member that I feel a TTS would work a tad better, THESE are going to be the reasons why.

 

Sorry for the delay I have a 2011 Ultra limited with Reinheart classic duals SE air cleaner that is tuned with TTS Mr. Wizard helped me with it and it runs very good. I am installing a set of Feuling reaper 574's. my question is should i continue with my current tune or start with a diffrent one. The timing table on yhe file that feuling has looks shity

 

Jamie....

That's been a few years back and there are new library calibrations out now. Delete the old TTS software you have, update to the TTS2 software.

Grab the DUH044-03 and start over using the new tuning techniques. Don't use the feuling timing tables.

 

wurk truk, that is a lot of information to digest! you make it sound so simple. I have played with the TTS some and have gotton the bike running pretty goodbut there is something missing. I have it scheduled to get dyno'd next week at Cycle Rama here in St. Pete. I sorta hate to spend the extra coin, but i know i will be happy with what they do. I will post what they get from the dyno. Thank you and Mr. Wizard for all the help with the tuning for us!

 

Thank you I am going to start on this fri.

 

Wurk truk....to someone absolutely new to TTS and tuning, your explaination is awesome in helping me understand, even though I don't understand everything you wrote. It's threads like this that are really helping me learn about my bike....I'm still amazed at the time everyone here takes to explain and help folks trying to gain a little information on how to take care of their engines....thank you.

 

Finally got a chance to put her on a dyno
255's + K&NstageI + D&D 2-into-1 with 4-passes of TTS tune she's at 80 HP/93 ft lbs

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wot pretty lean.

 

I'm sure the OP wants comments and I am trying to be positive. Problem there is a lot to be negative about.

Yeah, it is lean but it could be the 2-1 he is trying to tune. Little to no exhaust resistance.

The bike with those cams can produce more HP and TQ with the right exhaust but that 2-1 is too open. Again it could be the lean condition.

Notice the inherent dip in TQ the 255's are famous for just before and after 2500 RPM's? This can be tuned out but not completely. Again the lean condition.

Is that a clutch slip I see at 3500 RPM's?

I'm sure it's much better than stock. Since your TQ starts to fall off at 3700 RPM's then you should shift no higher than 5300 RPM's to get back to your peak TQ or your bike will fall off in the higher gears. Figure shift = loss of 1500 RPM's. When you grab a handful of throttle and shift you want to be back in your peak TQ curve.

Sorry if I seem harsh and all matter of fact.

 

I also don't see how you can have it tuned in 4 passes. the numbers probably look lower then normal as it indicates a 4th gear run too.