TTS Mastertune Information
#1561
07-23-2010, 11:44 PM
2008 Night train with V&H shortys and TTS tuner
Hello all,
Just like to express my thanks to all those who helped answer my questions on the TTS tuner.
After getting the tuner and hooking it up to my buddies 2008 Night Train I was able to easily back up the stock ECM settings as well as drop in the A-E 176-002 tuning file. Since the bike is currently only outfitted with the V&H short shots drag pipes and the PM air cleaner is still on the way, I just used the A-E 176-002 file as is since any tuning changes would just have to be repeated once the air cleaner arrived and was installed.
Even this canned map, that was less than ideal (since the map is calibrated for an air cleaner as well as short duals) the performance was still night and day ahead of the old settings, the bike has a whole new feel in the midrange responding to any change in throttle input with a linear torque curve. Missing is the lean surge that used to plague the bike any time the engine was lightly loaded in the lower gears also absent is the popping during deceleration.
The bike owner thinks it runs perfect but I can hear it blubbering due to the extra fuel supplied by the restriction of the stock air cleaner and cannot wait for the Performance Machine air cleaner to arrive so we can install it and then really dial this sucker in with a lean and mean tune, and rework the VE tables and then dial the A/F and Spark Curves and Ox Sensor offset to get the every last inch/ounce of torque available.
The TTS is really a great tool that will give someone with zero knowledge of tuning and a small amount of computer knowlege, an excellent bang for the buck, by just using the canned maps supplied with the tuner.
On the other hand the TTS allows access to all the tables and constants, Ox sensor variables etc. to make whatever adjustments an experienced tuner desires. On top of that the really incredible thing is the extremely innovative system for dialing in the VE tables using the capabilities of the stock Delphi system to quantify the VE at various RPM and Loads to allow the rest of the system to take advantage of changes to the engine breathing capabilities, while still using all the functionality of the sensors that the system was designed for, conversly many other systems have to revert to a crude set of instructions, often used in an open loop configuration disregarding inputs that are no longer usable.
Thanks again to TTS and HD forums, the first for a great product the latter for great information.
Just like to express my thanks to all those who helped answer my questions on the TTS tuner.
After getting the tuner and hooking it up to my buddies 2008 Night Train I was able to easily back up the stock ECM settings as well as drop in the A-E 176-002 tuning file. Since the bike is currently only outfitted with the V&H short shots drag pipes and the PM air cleaner is still on the way, I just used the A-E 176-002 file as is since any tuning changes would just have to be repeated once the air cleaner arrived and was installed.
Even this canned map, that was less than ideal (since the map is calibrated for an air cleaner as well as short duals) the performance was still night and day ahead of the old settings, the bike has a whole new feel in the midrange responding to any change in throttle input with a linear torque curve. Missing is the lean surge that used to plague the bike any time the engine was lightly loaded in the lower gears also absent is the popping during deceleration.
The bike owner thinks it runs perfect but I can hear it blubbering due to the extra fuel supplied by the restriction of the stock air cleaner and cannot wait for the Performance Machine air cleaner to arrive so we can install it and then really dial this sucker in with a lean and mean tune, and rework the VE tables and then dial the A/F and Spark Curves and Ox Sensor offset to get the every last inch/ounce of torque available.
The TTS is really a great tool that will give someone with zero knowledge of tuning and a small amount of computer knowlege, an excellent bang for the buck, by just using the canned maps supplied with the tuner.
On the other hand the TTS allows access to all the tables and constants, Ox sensor variables etc. to make whatever adjustments an experienced tuner desires. On top of that the really incredible thing is the extremely innovative system for dialing in the VE tables using the capabilities of the stock Delphi system to quantify the VE at various RPM and Loads to allow the rest of the system to take advantage of changes to the engine breathing capabilities, while still using all the functionality of the sensors that the system was designed for, conversly many other systems have to revert to a crude set of instructions, often used in an open loop configuration disregarding inputs that are no longer usable.
Thanks again to TTS and HD forums, the first for a great product the latter for great information.
#1562
07-24-2010, 09:40 AM
Hello all,
Just like to express my thanks to all those who helped answer my questions on the TTS tuner.
After getting the tuner and hooking it up to my buddies 2008 Night Train I was able to easily back up the stock ECM settings as well as drop in the A-E 176-002 tuning file. Since the bike is currently only outfitted with the V&H short shots drag pipes and the PM air cleaner is still on the way, I just used the A-E 176-002 file as is since any tuning changes would just have to be repeated once the air cleaner arrived and was installed.
Even this canned map, that was less than ideal (since the map is calibrated for an air cleaner as well as short duals) the performance was still night and day ahead of the old settings, the bike has a whole new feel in the midrange responding to any change in throttle input with a linear torque curve. Missing is the lean surge that used to plague the bike any time the engine was lightly loaded in the lower gears also absent is the popping during deceleration.
The bike owner thinks it runs perfect but I can hear it blubbering due to the extra fuel supplied by the restriction of the stock air cleaner and cannot wait for the Performance Machine air cleaner to arrive so we can install it and then really dial this sucker in with a lean and mean tune, and rework the VE tables and then dial the A/F and Spark Curves and Ox Sensor offset to get the every last inch/ounce of torque available.
The TTS is really a great tool that will give someone with zero knowledge of tuning and a small amount of computer knowlege, an excellent bang for the buck, by just using the canned maps supplied with the tuner.
On the other hand the TTS allows access to all the tables and constants, Ox sensor variables etc. to make whatever adjustments an experienced tuner desires. On top of that the really incredible thing is the extremely innovative system for dialing in the VE tables using the capabilities of the stock Delphi system to quantify the VE at various RPM and Loads to allow the rest of the system to take advantage of changes to the engine breathing capabilities, while still using all the functionality of the sensors that the system was designed for, conversly many other systems have to revert to a crude set of instructions, often used in an open loop configuration disregarding inputs that are no longer usable.
Thanks again to TTS and HD forums, the first for a great product the latter for great information.
Just like to express my thanks to all those who helped answer my questions on the TTS tuner.
After getting the tuner and hooking it up to my buddies 2008 Night Train I was able to easily back up the stock ECM settings as well as drop in the A-E 176-002 tuning file. Since the bike is currently only outfitted with the V&H short shots drag pipes and the PM air cleaner is still on the way, I just used the A-E 176-002 file as is since any tuning changes would just have to be repeated once the air cleaner arrived and was installed.
Even this canned map, that was less than ideal (since the map is calibrated for an air cleaner as well as short duals) the performance was still night and day ahead of the old settings, the bike has a whole new feel in the midrange responding to any change in throttle input with a linear torque curve. Missing is the lean surge that used to plague the bike any time the engine was lightly loaded in the lower gears also absent is the popping during deceleration.
The bike owner thinks it runs perfect but I can hear it blubbering due to the extra fuel supplied by the restriction of the stock air cleaner and cannot wait for the Performance Machine air cleaner to arrive so we can install it and then really dial this sucker in with a lean and mean tune, and rework the VE tables and then dial the A/F and Spark Curves and Ox Sensor offset to get the every last inch/ounce of torque available.
The TTS is really a great tool that will give someone with zero knowledge of tuning and a small amount of computer knowlege, an excellent bang for the buck, by just using the canned maps supplied with the tuner.
On the other hand the TTS allows access to all the tables and constants, Ox sensor variables etc. to make whatever adjustments an experienced tuner desires. On top of that the really incredible thing is the extremely innovative system for dialing in the VE tables using the capabilities of the stock Delphi system to quantify the VE at various RPM and Loads to allow the rest of the system to take advantage of changes to the engine breathing capabilities, while still using all the functionality of the sensors that the system was designed for, conversly many other systems have to revert to a crude set of instructions, often used in an open loop configuration disregarding inputs that are no longer usable.
Thanks again to TTS and HD forums, the first for a great product the latter for great information.
Well said. I was nervous about the product being too complex for me and my limited brain power, but soon realized it's actually quite user friendly. Bottom line I love mine and don't see me ever giong to another tuning device.
#1563
07-24-2010, 09:45 AM
Well... I got a few thoughts but my first thought would be not to reverse engineer your tune. 
There could be several things that is causing your buzz but I certainly don't know all the tricks.
Let me start with this experience... The last softail I did had a floorboard buzz so to speak. Drove me nuts.. what happened and why? I looked at what changed and thought it to be the tune. Went through it again and again... no joy.
Next on the list was a really stupid thought but it was a change none the less. I had changed mufflers. So... I warmed up the bike and loosened up the exhaust system from the heads back then torqued down the exhaust flanges at the heads then the frame mount then the muffler screws. Bingo, no more buzzing.
Come to find out, when I removed the stock mufflers they were very hard to remove. I had to move the muffler back and forth and this probably put the head pipe into a bind or shifted them somehow.
I had a fender shake, of all things, on my trike at 2600 RPM's. I was told it was a Harley, it was going to shake so get over it. Well, I didn't except that either... after months of going nuts I removed the True-Trac that was on the bike before I converted it to a trike... no more fender shake.
Know anyone that would like a good condition True-Trac for an Ultra? They really work well but not on a trike.
My last thought would be turned to a common issue with motor alignment to the frame or a maladjustment of a motor mount before suspecting the tune.
Anyway... I hope these thoughts will help in some weird way and head you in the right direction.
-wiz
There could be several things that is causing your buzz but I certainly don't know all the tricks.
Let me start with this experience... The last softail I did had a floorboard buzz so to speak. Drove me nuts.. what happened and why? I looked at what changed and thought it to be the tune. Went through it again and again... no joy.
Next on the list was a really stupid thought but it was a change none the less. I had changed mufflers. So... I warmed up the bike and loosened up the exhaust system from the heads back then torqued down the exhaust flanges at the heads then the frame mount then the muffler screws. Bingo, no more buzzing.
Come to find out, when I removed the stock mufflers they were very hard to remove. I had to move the muffler back and forth and this probably put the head pipe into a bind or shifted them somehow.
I had a fender shake, of all things, on my trike at 2600 RPM's. I was told it was a Harley, it was going to shake so get over it. Well, I didn't except that either... after months of going nuts I removed the True-Trac that was on the bike before I converted it to a trike... no more fender shake.
Know anyone that would like a good condition True-Trac for an Ultra? They really work well but not on a trike.
My last thought would be turned to a common issue with motor alignment to the frame or a maladjustment of a motor mount before suspecting the tune.
Anyway... I hope these thoughts will help in some weird way and head you in the right direction.
-wiz
#1564
07-24-2010, 09:52 AM
Club Member
#1565
07-24-2010, 04:11 PM
av8or,
Sorry I have been off the board for a few days, having worked in the past as an "NIASE certified master automotive technician" = (mechanic who knows how to think) I would have asked you to look for something in the engine mounting or accessories that would transmit engine vibration to the frame/floorboards.
It might make you feel better to know you are not the first to do a tune-up for this reason, you would be amazed how many times cars are misdiagnosed due to a vibration being transmitted to the body, most often the car gets a tune up or fuel injection/carburetor cleaning or adjustment. However often the outcome is much worse, I have seen guys replace pulleys and even torque converter/flywheels thinking that since they could see a slight misalignment that the wobbling part was the problem.
A good practice whenever installing exhaust parts is to assemble all parts loosely together (particularly slip joint connections) and attach all hangers and then tighten all connections. Also worth noting any exhaust system grows in length when it warms up different exhaust systems deal with this in different ways, many cars use a sliding hanger where a bar or pipe slide in and out of a rubber grommet, others rely on the rubber hanger being able to angle front to rear to allow the exhaust to swing forward and backward. Keep this in mind when tightening clamps to pipes where there is no preset attachment point attach the hanger to the pipe in a manner to allow expansion. In addition on many H pipe affairs it’s often better to warm them up then tighten them, this refers to H pipes on engines like flat twins or V6s and V8s where the two pipes that run parallel to the vehicle have a pipe between the two to connect them since many of these pipes do not have expansion joints it is important to think about how the expansion of the H pipe will affect the two, many will benefit from being tightened while hot, this will actually clamp the pipe at mid growth since the maximum length will be at say 5000 rpm on a hot day and the minimum with the engine off in December.
O-k so much for exhaust 101, in addition when you look at a used bike or particularly a used car a glance at the mounts to make sure they are relaxed is always a good idea. If a mount is twisted when the car/bike is sitting still it is often the sign of collision damage.
Sorry I have been off the board for a few days, having worked in the past as an "NIASE certified master automotive technician" = (mechanic who knows how to think) I would have asked you to look for something in the engine mounting or accessories that would transmit engine vibration to the frame/floorboards.
It might make you feel better to know you are not the first to do a tune-up for this reason, you would be amazed how many times cars are misdiagnosed due to a vibration being transmitted to the body, most often the car gets a tune up or fuel injection/carburetor cleaning or adjustment. However often the outcome is much worse, I have seen guys replace pulleys and even torque converter/flywheels thinking that since they could see a slight misalignment that the wobbling part was the problem.
A good practice whenever installing exhaust parts is to assemble all parts loosely together (particularly slip joint connections) and attach all hangers and then tighten all connections. Also worth noting any exhaust system grows in length when it warms up different exhaust systems deal with this in different ways, many cars use a sliding hanger where a bar or pipe slide in and out of a rubber grommet, others rely on the rubber hanger being able to angle front to rear to allow the exhaust to swing forward and backward. Keep this in mind when tightening clamps to pipes where there is no preset attachment point attach the hanger to the pipe in a manner to allow expansion. In addition on many H pipe affairs it’s often better to warm them up then tighten them, this refers to H pipes on engines like flat twins or V6s and V8s where the two pipes that run parallel to the vehicle have a pipe between the two to connect them since many of these pipes do not have expansion joints it is important to think about how the expansion of the H pipe will affect the two, many will benefit from being tightened while hot, this will actually clamp the pipe at mid growth since the maximum length will be at say 5000 rpm on a hot day and the minimum with the engine off in December.
O-k so much for exhaust 101, in addition when you look at a used bike or particularly a used car a glance at the mounts to make sure they are relaxed is always a good idea. If a mount is twisted when the car/bike is sitting still it is often the sign of collision damage.
#1566
07-26-2010, 10:28 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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I start by making sure there are no exhaust or intakes leaks.
Next I decrease the Decel Enleanment tables by 50% then by 100% if 50 does no good.
Next I go to the fuel table and richen up the effected area by 5% then by 10% if 5 does no good.
Next I go to the VE table and increase the effected area by 5% then by 10% if 5 does no good then 15% on the VE is my final software fix.
If it isn't fixed by then I curl up in a fetal position and cry because I don't know the answer but I do enjoy doing the research and asking questions.
-wiz
Next I decrease the Decel Enleanment tables by 50% then by 100% if 50 does no good.
Next I go to the fuel table and richen up the effected area by 5% then by 10% if 5 does no good.
Next I go to the VE table and increase the effected area by 5% then by 10% if 5 does no good then 15% on the VE is my final software fix.
If it isn't fixed by then I curl up in a fetal position and cry because I don't know the answer but I do enjoy doing the research and asking questions.
-wiz
#1567
07-27-2010, 07:27 AM
Re-Tune
Hello all,
I have a 2009 XBNZ that I put an air cleaner kit and RB Racing LSR 2-1 exhaust on. Got the TTS to tune it, and it turned out great!
I am now going to upgrade cams (and pushrods and bearings) and likely will go with the new Woods 555 this winter. I realize that I can just retune, but I noticed that theire is a Cal file 176 Stage 2 that lists the RB Racing exhaust with the SE 255 Cam. The Woods 555 is the same lift, but obviously different specs (duration longer on woods and such). I am putting a 4* advance sprocket, per Hillside recommendation, in until I can do big bore/heads later. Question is, should I upload this Cal file as a closer starting point for re-tune, or just start re-tuning from where I am. I like the fact that the 176 file specifically lists the RB exhaust. Input welcome. Thx.
TedMan
I have a 2009 XBNZ that I put an air cleaner kit and RB Racing LSR 2-1 exhaust on. Got the TTS to tune it, and it turned out great!
I am now going to upgrade cams (and pushrods and bearings) and likely will go with the new Woods 555 this winter. I realize that I can just retune, but I noticed that theire is a Cal file 176 Stage 2 that lists the RB Racing exhaust with the SE 255 Cam. The Woods 555 is the same lift, but obviously different specs (duration longer on woods and such). I am putting a 4* advance sprocket, per Hillside recommendation, in until I can do big bore/heads later. Question is, should I upload this Cal file as a closer starting point for re-tune, or just start re-tuning from where I am. I like the fact that the 176 file specifically lists the RB exhaust. Input welcome. Thx.
TedMan
#1568
07-27-2010, 07:57 AM
TTS says it is most important to match up your cam profile first, not only lift but duration and event timing, then look at exhaust if there is any choice. Displacement can be adjusted for, but the effects of cam profile cannot. Exhausts can be accommodated, but sometimes not as easy. The Air filter will be tuned around regardless.
#1569
07-27-2010, 08:31 AM
Club Member
Still working on getting out the decel pop. It only seems to happen on 2nd or 3rd gear - down around 1500-2000 RPM. Trying to decide where to add some richness but these Lambda tables don't use throttle position anymore. Rather, it's all in MAP (manifold absolute pressure) whatever that is.
Of course, there could be something else going on with your map that I am not taking into consideration but I can't see your map from here.
#1570
07-27-2010, 11:42 AM
TTS says it is most important to match up your cam profile first, not only lift but duration and event timing, then look at exhaust if there is any choice. Displacement can be adjusted for, but the effects of cam profile cannot. Exhausts can be accommodated, but sometimes not as easy. The Air filter will be tuned around regardless.
TedMan