You and I both know that it is only a matter of time before the OE's adopt wideband O2 sensors in mainstream applications as there are already several automotive OE's already using them. GM's latest Ecotec engine, several Mazda's, several Honda's, and a wide range of Cadillac's are just a few models that come to mind that have OEM wideband sensors, and there are certainly more to come.

 

Until the sensors get a better result I think I will have to disagree with you on that one. The original design for these sensors was a lean burn system that Honda ran for awhile. The issues were that the NOx went out of hand when in this mode. They are not used as a wide band as most would like to think. Most of the applications I have seen use both the switching sensor as well as the narrow band sensor in tandem. I call them a narrow bands as a true wide band sensor measure from 0 - 25 :1 AFR and cost about $1000 per sensor. These sensors have been around for over 10 years now and if they were going to used in mass by the OE's they would have been already.

The newest one from Bosch is getting close to what the OE's require for a durability/reliability standpoint. It may happen in the future as I've learned to never say never but they are just not there at this point in time.

 

In my opinion, one of the unique features of the PCV is its ability to run multiple maps, and switch between the two on the fly. Set one up for max power. Then another for max fuel efficiency. Or, how about having a map specific for when your stuck in traffic. Richening it up to cool it down. Taken even further, the PCV's ability to tune each gear individually adds more possibilities. How about richening the slower gears to cool it down but leaving the higher gears lean to recapture some fuel efficiency. Not much overheating happening at 100MPH. Overall your not driving down the road with one tune that may not meet the needs of the current situation. Quite often a tune results in compromises made one way or the other. With the PCV you have some flexibility in having the tune meet multiple needs with less compromises.

Once again this is just my ramblings. Each system has its advantages.

 

Understand that whenever the OEM computer is operating in closed loop it's going to over ride anything any add-on box is trying to do. So while you think you can make big changes you indeed may not in closed loop operation. Since all models of HD's do not operate the same closed loop profile what works on one may well not work on another.

 

Duel map switches are mostly for running NOS or race gas. No real need for it on a street ride.

A good map will address economy and performance and has been done for years at good dyno shops with Power Commanders.

Usually, three settings are used.
Leaner settings for light cruise and low rpm. No need for a lot of gas when just cruising. 13.8.14.0

A little richer for when getting on the gas a bit.13.2-13.4

Slightly richer yet for full throttle so the engine makes good power and runs cooler. 12.9-13.0

Best of both worlds! Good economy when just cruising, best performance when you wack the throttle.

 

The ECU would only override the add-on if it knew that it was running richer or leaner than it's map dictated, but since the o2 sensors are "eliminated"(cheated to indicate AFR is on target all the time) would that not just make it a static system which the PCV would just add too or subtract from? The Power Commander system doesn't turn off the closed loop functionality of the ECU but it fools it into never making any adjustments. Which has the same results as being in open loop mode with a static map. Correct me if I'm lost on this!

 

No, you're not lost on that. But after running that way myself for about 16k miles I'm much happier having the closed-loop work again with the TTS I used to replace the PC-III. Another aspect of what you're saying is that the AFVs in use at the time of "O2 elimination" get locked in, even if they wouldn't be right for your canned PC map. If you've been running closed-loop with breathing mods prior to installing the PC you'd best either reset your AFVs or get the bike custom tuned. Better yet would be to get them reset and the PC custom mapped. Then you could more successfully share that map.

Best possible thing to do is forgo the PC altogether and just get a TTS tuner. Trust me.

 

If you fool the ECM then it's would be fooled at all times. That being said what happens when the bike is being run in different conditions than when it was tuned? As Glens found out on his own it does work but never as well as the OEM system working properly with no foolers.

On a side note the government is on the war path again about anything that defeats the OEM emission system. A couple of companies have already been given huge fines so if your going to install foolers I would keep it very much to oneself.

 

I am not here to argue, I am here to provide technical information and to help people tune their bikes, however I am now done with this thread. I understand there are plenty of individuals that sucessfully tune their bikes with TTS. I know as we are a TTS Mastertune dealer and like the product as well. However, I know I am one of the only individuals outside of Dynojet that has had the opportunity to thoroughly evaluate and test the Dynojet PC V and the Auto tune module, yet some in this thread are biased or opposed to the product or are unwilling to embrace the new technology that Dynojet has brought to the table. If anyone would like technical information on the PC V or TTS Mastertune feel free to contact us at 877-729-4754 or email jamie@fuelmotousa.com I am now out of here.

 

Jamie is a distributor for both products and will handle anything you need. The product involved in this thread is only as good as the person using it but some handle the issues differently than the others.