Glen, you asked some good questions. Very curious to the answers as well, especially your last para:

"I'm wondering. Does the wide-band close-loop system use an AFR table based on TPS/rpm? How well does this work on top of the MAP/rpm base system? How often is it recommended to free-air calibrate the O2 sensors? Is this system intended for constant use or maybe more for generating "regular" maps?"

If you are privied to the info offline, posting what you can share here would be appreciated.

I asked some similar questions a few weeks back over on VTF form the DJ Research gent. Replies are still there if interested.

Thanks,
Herko.

 

When you enable the Auto Tune module in the PC V software there is a AFR table for each cylinder (based on the same parameters as the fuel and ignition tables) it simply maintains a demanded AFR based on this table. With the included 2 position map switch in position 1 you can run the system "live" where it continually tunes in real time or in position 2 it will run off the base map in the unit, however it will continue to collect data for later review where you can view the trims in the software and either accept the fuel trims and write the to the map or delete them. You can leave the Auto Tune in place for constant use or you can remove it and tune any many PC V equipped bikes as you want with it. As far as testing the sensors Dynojet has incorporated a test feature with a test button and LED status indicators on the modules. To perform a free air test you simply remove the sensor from the bike to expose them to free uncontaminated air, turn on the ignition switch for 30 seconds to heat the sensors, hold down the button on the module for 3 seconds and it performs a very easy test.

 

Actually that was Glens question originally. But thanks for the response just the same.

"in the PC V software there is a AFR table for each cylinder (based on the same parameters as the fuel and ignition tables) it simply maintains a demanded AFR based on this table."

Is the PC V software available for purchase or download?

 

Here is a link to the user manual http://www.powercommander.com/powerc...VUserGuide.pdf
and the software can be found for download here http://www.powercommander.com/powerc...downloads.aspx

 

Thanks!

 

One needs to be careful when thinking you can leave these so called wide band sensors in your bike and they will continue to work the same. These sensors do go bad at a much higher rate than a switching sensor does. Dynojet has a test kit for the sensor in the dyno application which uses the same sensor, so the dyno operator can test them and replace them as necessary. They recommend that they be changed once the reading changes by .5 AFR. This is not a Dynojet only issue, it's a sensor issue! If you run the sensor too hot, or too cold the sensor goes bad. If it get too much moisture on it bingo it goes bad. The problem is they do not just quit, they change ther output as they age so what is 14.6:1 today maybe 15:1 tomorrow! All one needs to do is go to Bosch or NTK and look up the requirments for these sensors and all the information is there.

If you think it's going to be easier to use the PC-V versus the Mastertune product I think you are mistaken. Each product needs to be learned and used properly. How they run is upto the tuner as long as the self tune mod is turned OFF one the tune is setup properly in the beginiing.

 

Can you back that allegation up? Not trying to being a jerk, I'd just like to read about it if it's a realistic issue.

 

You do not need to leave the Auto Tune and sensors installed once the bike is tuned if you do not want continuous closed loop operation. As with Thundermax Auto Tune there are are parameters in the PC V software that will allow a maximum fuel change if one does choose to leave the wideband sensors intact. For example, with Thundermax when we dynotune a customers bike and have the tune where we want it we then set the max closed loop fuel change to 5 or 10% so it can only change the base map by this margin. As far as the life of the wideband sensors I will not be as quick to discredit their longevity in these applications as Bosch states an expectency of up to 100,000km under normal conditions, although I agree the expectancy is not as long as a stock switching sensors. As far as wb sensor life in dyno use we do test ours and yes we have replaced it several times, but considering the harsh enviroment our dyno sees day to day with everything from Harley's to turbo/nitrous Hayabusa's, sensor life has really been a non issue on our dyno. The big issue we see these days is that everyone is caught up in AFR numbers, however few really understand that there is much more to tuning than picking a demanded AFR and calling it tuned. First off you need a fairly accurate base map or calibration to start with and an understanding that AFR requirements actually change as much as fuel and ignition timing requirements. Variables that influence optimum AFR include engine load, engine temp, rpm, fuel, on and on and on. There is no magic in AFR tuning, the only way to know what a motor needs is by testing and determining what a motor wants. Realizing the title of this thread is PC-V or TTS Mastertune all I have to say is that a tuning device or program is only as good as its tune and the tuner using it. Do I like TTS Mastertune? yes. Do I like Dynojet PC V? yes. Both are very good products, however there is no single tuning device that can do it all and each has it attributes to work off of. When making a choice for a tuning product I recommend making your decision based on the amount of support available and your willingness to learn.

 

Jamie,

I am no longer in the market for a tuner, but I really appreciate the time and effort you and others put into educating us all. Very valuable info. Thanks!

Steve

 

Yes, its real and I wish it were not. Ask Herko Bagger about his test. This is just why the OE's do not use them very much. I would recommend that if you are going to use them get it tuned up then remove them. Bosch Techinical paper # Y 258 E00 015e gives very good information on how to properly install them and what the does and don't are. Once tuned and when keeping the sensor in its normal control range they will last longer but that is not the case to begin with. Also remember this paper is on the newest version of the sensors which are event better than the old ones, by old one were talking earlier this years versions. Limiting the range of what they can do will help keep the adjustment from going to far out of control but again this is not a seelf tuneing forever type deal.

There is no self tune system by the OE's for a reason, limits have been place there because they know what is going to happen over the long haul. Thats why using the OE stuff works so well.

Look it's all up to the tuner doing the job as to what the total power output is going to be. He can tune it for max power and I can tell you if left at that level and run hard by the rider for long periods of time your going to burn up and air cooled HD. The temperature made in the cylinders are to high at the max power levels so you need to understand all the limits just not some of them.