Which EFI Do You Guys Recommend For This Setup?
#1
09-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Which EFI Do You Guys Recommend For This Setup?
I'm sure this has been asked a million times, but I'm trying to be specific with my case.
I'm planning on sticking a set of Thunderheaders and either a SE Stage I or Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C on a 2008 Street Bob.
Do you all recommend PCIII, FuelPak, or SERT? If I had the cash, I'd go with Thundermax, or if they had it for Dynas probably a RideMaxx setup, but I can't afford the former and the latter isn't out yet.
From what I understand, SERT is the most difficult to work with unless one really knows what they're doing....I'm trying to do all the wrenching on this project myself; I'd really rather not have the dealer do the installations for me. I'd also like to be able to do any subsequent tuning myself...so, what do you recommend for this situation? Thanks guys!
I'm planning on sticking a set of Thunderheaders and either a SE Stage I or Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C on a 2008 Street Bob.
Do you all recommend PCIII, FuelPak, or SERT? If I had the cash, I'd go with Thundermax, or if they had it for Dynas probably a RideMaxx setup, but I can't afford the former and the latter isn't out yet.
From what I understand, SERT is the most difficult to work with unless one really knows what they're doing....I'm trying to do all the wrenching on this project myself; I'd really rather not have the dealer do the installations for me. I'd also like to be able to do any subsequent tuning myself...so, what do you recommend for this situation? Thanks guys!
#2
09-18-2008, 03:05 AM
Road Master
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Don't let some of the comments on the site put you off the SERT. I suspect that some of the nay sayers have never actually used it, certainly from a few of the statements made about it which are plain wrong.
I had an 07 RK and set it up myself using the SERT, and I'm no rocket scientist.
The new SERT is even better.
Now dont get me wrong its not just plug and play, but with a few hours spent reading the comprehensive manual most people with a modicum of common sense should be able to handle it.
So far my comments have been concerning just getting the bike to run better in the real world, however if you want max power that you will most likely rarely use then a dyno is probably going to be required. Since I have no interest in this particular bragging right I will concern my comments with the aforementioned everyday ride.
If you go the SERT route and do not go too wild, say slip-ons and an air intake then the SERT is pretty easy to start using. When bought you should get the dongle (a bike pc interface to allow comms between the two) a CD and with the super SERT a second box with a button on it(allows 15 mins of data to be recorded.) You would also need to purchase a set of cables for the dongle.
With the simple set up I have mentioned you should find a pre-made map on the CD which will get you going. I would then increase the CLB tables accross the board, which will do exactly the same thing as the XIEDS. it will trick the ecu into thinking it is running just a little leaner than it is and should get you somewhere in the 14.1:1 area, it certainly cooled my engine down considerably.
Now you've got a starting point you can hook up the second box which has an activation button it to begin recording data. Go for a ride and if you encounter a problem with load, surging etc., you should replicate it and record the engine data. It would take forever for me to go into it here but you can use the data to alter the base map slightly to suite your needs.
The SERT does other stuff to, like reset codes, check for historical codes, change rev limit(although I actually lowere my rev limit by 200rpm to reduce stress on my engine and never noticed as I dont tend to ride everywhere bouncing off the rev limiter)
Basically what I am saying is that the SERT is a good tool that anyone can use with a bit of effort.
Having said all of that it may be overkill if pipes and cleaner is all you will be doing.
I am awaiting delivery of my 09 RK, and intend to try the dealer download and see how that works. If I'm not happy with that I may try these XIED things. (My thinking with this is after my pipes and cleaner the download will get me back to where I was stock, which is still lean like stock, and the XIED's should richen things up a bit) If it dont then its not a great deal of money wasted, and I will probably bite the bullet and get the super SERT.
It depends what you want, I want a cooler running motor with no popping or pinging, and better than stock mpg. The SERT gave me that last time, its just the cost I have an issue with.
I have also used a PCIII on an 04 train, and it worked very well indeed. I wouldn't use it on a bike with O2 sensors because it dosent use em, and they do help a motor to adjust (albeit slightly with narrow band sensors) to different fuels, altitudes, climate, etc. They arn't perfect by any means but still would rather have em than not. I know that a lot of people say that not a lot of time is spent in the areas the sensors are used, but that hasnt been my experience when doing data runs for real world highway riding.
As far as SERT install goes, there isnt one, just hook it up and mate it with your bike, dont waste money paying the dealer to plug in a cable.
In my case the dealer download should be on the money because I am going with the SE touring muffler and SE filter, I have run the pipes before and the new SE filter+backplate is now like the ANBS which was a better unit.
In your case I am unfamiliar with the pipes you are going with and if they are much wilder than the SE stuff the dealer download may not work as well for you.
If your not that botherd about the O2 sensors then the PCIII is an option, but I dont believe its any easier to set up than the SERT, and can do much less.
The other units out there may be better or worse, I cannot comment as I have never used them.
Hopefully thats all as clear as mud..........................
I had an 07 RK and set it up myself using the SERT, and I'm no rocket scientist.
The new SERT is even better.
Now dont get me wrong its not just plug and play, but with a few hours spent reading the comprehensive manual most people with a modicum of common sense should be able to handle it.
So far my comments have been concerning just getting the bike to run better in the real world, however if you want max power that you will most likely rarely use then a dyno is probably going to be required. Since I have no interest in this particular bragging right I will concern my comments with the aforementioned everyday ride.
If you go the SERT route and do not go too wild, say slip-ons and an air intake then the SERT is pretty easy to start using. When bought you should get the dongle (a bike pc interface to allow comms between the two) a CD and with the super SERT a second box with a button on it(allows 15 mins of data to be recorded.) You would also need to purchase a set of cables for the dongle.
With the simple set up I have mentioned you should find a pre-made map on the CD which will get you going. I would then increase the CLB tables accross the board, which will do exactly the same thing as the XIEDS. it will trick the ecu into thinking it is running just a little leaner than it is and should get you somewhere in the 14.1:1 area, it certainly cooled my engine down considerably.
Now you've got a starting point you can hook up the second box which has an activation button it to begin recording data. Go for a ride and if you encounter a problem with load, surging etc., you should replicate it and record the engine data. It would take forever for me to go into it here but you can use the data to alter the base map slightly to suite your needs.
The SERT does other stuff to, like reset codes, check for historical codes, change rev limit(although I actually lowere my rev limit by 200rpm to reduce stress on my engine and never noticed as I dont tend to ride everywhere bouncing off the rev limiter)
Basically what I am saying is that the SERT is a good tool that anyone can use with a bit of effort.
Having said all of that it may be overkill if pipes and cleaner is all you will be doing.
I am awaiting delivery of my 09 RK, and intend to try the dealer download and see how that works. If I'm not happy with that I may try these XIED things. (My thinking with this is after my pipes and cleaner the download will get me back to where I was stock, which is still lean like stock, and the XIED's should richen things up a bit) If it dont then its not a great deal of money wasted, and I will probably bite the bullet and get the super SERT.
It depends what you want, I want a cooler running motor with no popping or pinging, and better than stock mpg. The SERT gave me that last time, its just the cost I have an issue with.
I have also used a PCIII on an 04 train, and it worked very well indeed. I wouldn't use it on a bike with O2 sensors because it dosent use em, and they do help a motor to adjust (albeit slightly with narrow band sensors) to different fuels, altitudes, climate, etc. They arn't perfect by any means but still would rather have em than not. I know that a lot of people say that not a lot of time is spent in the areas the sensors are used, but that hasnt been my experience when doing data runs for real world highway riding.
As far as SERT install goes, there isnt one, just hook it up and mate it with your bike, dont waste money paying the dealer to plug in a cable.
In my case the dealer download should be on the money because I am going with the SE touring muffler and SE filter, I have run the pipes before and the new SE filter+backplate is now like the ANBS which was a better unit.
In your case I am unfamiliar with the pipes you are going with and if they are much wilder than the SE stuff the dealer download may not work as well for you.
If your not that botherd about the O2 sensors then the PCIII is an option, but I dont believe its any easier to set up than the SERT, and can do much less.
The other units out there may be better or worse, I cannot comment as I have never used them.
Hopefully thats all as clear as mud..........................
#3
09-18-2008, 03:13 AM
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Oops forgot to mention that if you opt for the SERT there are a lot of guys on here that will assist you with no bu!!$#it. I know that when I first started using the SERT they certainly helped me a great deal.
Thats one of the great things with this site, whatever you do you wont be alone, and there are always people with more knowledge who will help us.
Thats one of the great things with this site, whatever you do you wont be alone, and there are always people with more knowledge who will help us.
#4
09-18-2008, 06:59 AM
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#5
09-18-2008, 02:51 PM
Take everything WildBill said about the SERT, and add being able to calibrate the speedometer, reset AFVs, and use the VTune software to get you 90+% with no dyno, and you'll be talking about the real replacement for the SERT, the TTS Tuner. They used to make the SERT for Harley but the relationship is over and they've now released what was the SERT with some capabilities Harley didn't want or just wouldn't let them do. The same cables work and even a recent SERT can evidently be modified to use the new capabilities for a nominal fee. Also, for not twice the price, you can get a TTS Tuner that will marry to two bikes.
#6
09-18-2008, 04:49 PM
I had an 07 RK and set it up myself using the SERT, and I'm no rocket scientist.
The new SERT is even better.
Now dont get me wrong its not just plug and play, but with a few hours spent reading the comprehensive manual most people with a modicum of common sense should be able to handle it.
So far my comments have been concerning just getting the bike to run better in the real world, however if you want max power that you will most likely rarely use then a dyno is probably going to be required. Since I have no interest in this particular bragging right I will concern my comments with the aforementioned everyday ride.
If you go the SERT route and do not go too wild, say slip-ons and an air intake then the SERT is pretty easy to start using. When bought you should get the dongle (a bike pc interface to allow comms between the two) a CD and with the super SERT a second box with a button on it(allows 15 mins of data to be recorded.) You would also need to purchase a set of cables for the dongle.
With the simple set up I have mentioned you should find a pre-made map on the CD which will get you going. I would then increase the CLB tables accross the board, which will do exactly the same thing as the XIEDS. it will trick the ecu into thinking it is running just a little leaner than it is and should get you somewhere in the 14.1:1 area, it certainly cooled my engine down considerably.
Now you've got a starting point you can hook up the second box which has an activation button it to begin recording data. Go for a ride and if you encounter a problem with load, surging etc., you should replicate it and record the engine data. It would take forever for me to go into it here but you can use the data to alter the base map slightly to suite your needs.
The SERT does other stuff to, like reset codes, check for historical codes, change rev limit(although I actually lowere my rev limit by 200rpm to reduce stress on my engine and never noticed as I dont tend to ride everywhere bouncing off the rev limiter)
Basically what I am saying is that the SERT is a good tool that anyone can use with a bit of effort.
Having said all of that it may be overkill if pipes and cleaner is all you will be doing.
I am awaiting delivery of my 09 RK, and intend to try the dealer download and see how that works. If I'm not happy with that I may try these XIED things. (My thinking with this is after my pipes and cleaner the download will get me back to where I was stock, which is still lean like stock, and the XIED's should richen things up a bit) If it dont then its not a great deal of money wasted, and I will probably bite the bullet and get the super SERT.
It depends what you want, I want a cooler running motor with no popping or pinging, and better than stock mpg. The SERT gave me that last time, its just the cost I have an issue with.
I have also used a PCIII on an 04 train, and it worked very well indeed. I wouldn't use it on a bike with O2 sensors because it dosent use em, and they do help a motor to adjust (albeit slightly with narrow band sensors) to different fuels, altitudes, climate, etc. They arn't perfect by any means but still would rather have em than not. I know that a lot of people say that not a lot of time is spent in the areas the sensors are used, but that hasnt been my experience when doing data runs for real world highway riding.
As far as SERT install goes, there isnt one, just hook it up and mate it with your bike, dont waste money paying the dealer to plug in a cable.
In my case the dealer download should be on the money because I am going with the SE touring muffler and SE filter, I have run the pipes before and the new SE filter+backplate is now like the ANBS which was a better unit.
In your case I am unfamiliar with the pipes you are going with and if they are much wilder than the SE stuff the dealer download may not work as well for you.
If your not that botherd about the O2 sensors then the PCIII is an option, but I dont believe its any easier to set up than the SERT, and can do much less.
The other units out there may be better or worse, I cannot comment as I have never used them.
The new SERT is even better.
Now dont get me wrong its not just plug and play, but with a few hours spent reading the comprehensive manual most people with a modicum of common sense should be able to handle it.
So far my comments have been concerning just getting the bike to run better in the real world, however if you want max power that you will most likely rarely use then a dyno is probably going to be required. Since I have no interest in this particular bragging right I will concern my comments with the aforementioned everyday ride.
If you go the SERT route and do not go too wild, say slip-ons and an air intake then the SERT is pretty easy to start using. When bought you should get the dongle (a bike pc interface to allow comms between the two) a CD and with the super SERT a second box with a button on it(allows 15 mins of data to be recorded.) You would also need to purchase a set of cables for the dongle.
With the simple set up I have mentioned you should find a pre-made map on the CD which will get you going. I would then increase the CLB tables accross the board, which will do exactly the same thing as the XIEDS. it will trick the ecu into thinking it is running just a little leaner than it is and should get you somewhere in the 14.1:1 area, it certainly cooled my engine down considerably.
Now you've got a starting point you can hook up the second box which has an activation button it to begin recording data. Go for a ride and if you encounter a problem with load, surging etc., you should replicate it and record the engine data. It would take forever for me to go into it here but you can use the data to alter the base map slightly to suite your needs.
The SERT does other stuff to, like reset codes, check for historical codes, change rev limit(although I actually lowere my rev limit by 200rpm to reduce stress on my engine and never noticed as I dont tend to ride everywhere bouncing off the rev limiter)
Basically what I am saying is that the SERT is a good tool that anyone can use with a bit of effort.
Having said all of that it may be overkill if pipes and cleaner is all you will be doing.
I am awaiting delivery of my 09 RK, and intend to try the dealer download and see how that works. If I'm not happy with that I may try these XIED things. (My thinking with this is after my pipes and cleaner the download will get me back to where I was stock, which is still lean like stock, and the XIED's should richen things up a bit) If it dont then its not a great deal of money wasted, and I will probably bite the bullet and get the super SERT.
It depends what you want, I want a cooler running motor with no popping or pinging, and better than stock mpg. The SERT gave me that last time, its just the cost I have an issue with.
I have also used a PCIII on an 04 train, and it worked very well indeed. I wouldn't use it on a bike with O2 sensors because it dosent use em, and they do help a motor to adjust (albeit slightly with narrow band sensors) to different fuels, altitudes, climate, etc. They arn't perfect by any means but still would rather have em than not. I know that a lot of people say that not a lot of time is spent in the areas the sensors are used, but that hasnt been my experience when doing data runs for real world highway riding.
As far as SERT install goes, there isnt one, just hook it up and mate it with your bike, dont waste money paying the dealer to plug in a cable.
In my case the dealer download should be on the money because I am going with the SE touring muffler and SE filter, I have run the pipes before and the new SE filter+backplate is now like the ANBS which was a better unit.
In your case I am unfamiliar with the pipes you are going with and if they are much wilder than the SE stuff the dealer download may not work as well for you.
If your not that botherd about the O2 sensors then the PCIII is an option, but I dont believe its any easier to set up than the SERT, and can do much less.
The other units out there may be better or worse, I cannot comment as I have never used them.
That said, I've never installed or tuned before, hence my apprehension about the SERT. I do get the general impression that it's a better system than PCIII or FuelPak, just a bit more of a learning curve. I like to think I'm of at least average intelligence, and I was able to pull the wool over someone's eyes and snag a college degree in 4 years, so I'm thinking that means I should be able to figure it out.
I'm definitely not going with slipons...if I replace anything I'm going to replace it all, so the stock headers are coming off. The Thunderheaders are 2-1's, and known for being great in terms of power and sound. I didn't realize that PCIII bypassed the O2 sensors...I'm sure I've seen it mentioned and it just didn't register. If using those will help a system auto-adjust, I'd prefer to keep using them. Thanks for the info so far!
Take everything WildBill said about the SERT, and add being able to calibrate the speedometer, reset AFVs, and use the VTune software to get you 90+% with no dyno, and you'll be talking about the real replacement for the SERT, the TTS Tuner. They used to make the SERT for Harley but the relationship is over and they've now released what was the SERT with some capabilities Harley didn't want or just wouldn't let them do. The same cables work and even a recent SERT can evidently be modified to use the new capabilities for a nominal fee. Also, for not twice the price, you can get a TTS Tuner that will marry to two bikes.
#7
09-18-2008, 05:03 PM
HD EFI Guru
You can start here on the forum https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignition-tuner-ecm-fuel-injection/219750-tts-harley-tuner-updated-w-new-info.html and then you can see our web site at www.Mastertune.net
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#8
09-19-2008, 11:33 AM
You can start here on the forum https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=219750 and then you can see our web site at www.Mastertune.net
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