Sorry for the rant Lee...and I'm damn glad nothing bad came of your 70 situation. The old saying goes "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure". My bike started having the injector-caused problems after 600 miles or so...I had some idea but no solid clue what was going on with my bought new off the showroom floor $16,000+ bike...I would have never known about the 8* injector problem OR the 25* injector swap if it hadn't been for this thread...yet the MOCO knew about the problem in February 2006 and I purchased a 8* injected bike in August 2006...I'm scheduled to have the injector swap/re-map done on Thursday next week...I'll be riding all labor day weekend...I just hope I don't have any 70 situations of my own between now and then.

 

I've got an 06' Deluxe, does anyone know if having a PCIII on it would be a problem when taking into the dealer? In other words are they going to give me crap about it and refuse to change out the FIs.

 

OK guys, I've been searching for, why would an 8* cause this problem and why does an 25* cure it. I just posted something like this on another thread, so hopefully I can state the same theory twice.

My theory is, we have a condition called "fuel spongeing", meaning that something likethe intake valve is getting sooted up, such as from oil coming from the PCV system, and absorbing the injected fuel from the injector. When the valve is colder it absorbs causing a lean condition, when it's hot the fuelevaporates and causes a rich condition.The 25* injectors do a better job of directing the spray around the valve directly into the combustion chamber giving a more consistant A/F ratio. In the past, HDs run extra rich covering up many flaws, now that we are tryingcorrect these overly rich conditions, we are uncovering some warts. If I had an O6, I would want 25* even if it cost me.

Another condition we have with EFI is fuel pooling, meaning that the injector sprays fuel on the intake runner, it accumulates untila large enough pool, then the intake air velocity scrapes it up causingdrivabilityproblems, runner heat also affects this condition. Obviously differnt spray pattern type injectors can help or hinder this problem. Many of the automobile ECMs haveprogramming built into them tohelp overcome theselaws of physics.

 

There are many different strategies for injector spray angles. The goal is to get as much of the fuel as possible onto the back of the intake valve. Ideally, you wouldn't spray any of the fuel onto the intake manifold surfaces or onto the surfaces of the intake port. The back of the intake valve is the hottest surface in the port and is the best aiming point for the injector so that evaporization due to heat can help get as much fuel vapor into the cylinder as possible, while minimizing the amount of liquid fuel entering through the intake valve.

In some throttle body/manifold designs it is difficult to aim the injectors so that the entire fuel pulse can hit the back of the valve. In that case it is better to have a wider spray angle to diffuse the fuel into a wider pattern. I believe there might be an injector aiming issue on this design and that is why a wider spray angle 25^ versus 8^ improves cold drive.

There are a lot of engine/fuel system combinations that successfully use a narrow spray pattern,(pencil stream)as opposed to the wider angle spray (cone spray). In my opinion, the H-D design probably suffers from injector aiming and positioning issues that works better with a wider spray angle.

 

I have a 06 Night train I bought in Feb but just built a 95ci with a multitude of parts some Harley and some aftermarket I did notice a slight lurching before the build but not all back together yet do you think Harley will still provide the new injectors even though I've modified it?

 

i have a 06 fx softail just turned 5000 miles bike stalled on me going about 65-70 mph got it to the side of the road with a cage coming down on me hard i thought i was buying it. started to lay the bike down cage went by missing me by a hair anyway i had the bike all the way over and had to rest it on its side. minimal scratches to both pass sidedirectionals. mirror and pipes.brought the bike to my tuner he finds out about this injector deal tells me this is the problem. he calls harley they tell him go ahead change out the injectors no charge to the customer all fine and good. but why the hell didnt they tell me about it in feb 06 when they found out about it. i bought my bike in oct 05. anyway my question as stupid as it may sound they should replace the scratched parts on my otherwise mint bike that i have over 25 large in to? and also my stained drawers from the cager? will they think im nuts or do i have a legit complaint. thanks vince......................

 

I agree, beats me why they didnt ....but there again, neither did mine. I learned it here and took mine in and had them changed.

 

update: it wasnt the injectors at all, turns out the ecm is no good. so harley replaced the ecm under warranty but they tell me the race tuner i bought from them and had them install before i ever even pickrd the bike up is my problem?????? are they for real? i mean theres nothing wrong with the race tuner other than its married to the friggin ecm that took a shi*. i cant believe this.should they replace the tuner???it was bought fromand installed by them.man this just dont seem right to me......[:@]any opinions appreciated at this point......thanks.

 

Sorry to reopen a zombie thread, but I have an 06 Road King Custom that I have been having problems with. It doesn't stall out when cold, more so when warmed up, but it idles rough and misfires, and as of late it has been getting a little bit worse. It has misfired and idled rough since I took ownership in Feb. 2010, and I thought maybe it's just how they run. But as I stated, it's been getting a little worse, and has stalled out a time or two. I bought the bike with 3,000 miles (now has 17,000). Just curious if, since there is a service bulletin, is this something that the dealer should still take care of? And does anyone know where I can find a copy of the service bulletin? The link at the beginning of this thread is no longer available.

Any thoughts and insight would be appreciated. And again, sorry for resurrecting such an old thread! :-)

 

M-1185 1 of 2
SERVICE BULLETIN
M-1185 February 20, 2006
FUEL INJECTOR/CALIBRATION CHANGES FOR 2006 1450cc
BIG TWINS
®
Purpose
It has recently been determined that the 8
°
angle cone spray
fuel injectors used on 2006 1450cc Big Twins may cause cold
start and/or driveability problems on some motorcycles.
In the interest of promoting customer satisfaction, the 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors used on CVO 103 cu. in.
(1690cc) motors will be installed on all production Big Twins
beginning on or around February 13, 2006.
Additionally, Harley-Davidson will provide for the installation
of 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors on those motorcycles
where use of the 8
°
fuel injectors (part number 27625-06) is
determined to be directly responsible for cold start and/or
driveability problems. See REQUIRED DEALER ACTION.
NOTE
Due to changes in the manufacturing process, the part number
of the 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injector is changing from
27709-06 to 27709-06A. This fuel injector also will be
stamped with the words “25 DEG” for easy identification. See
Figure 1.
Motorcycles Affected
Only 2006 1450cc Big Twin model motorcycles that exhibit
cold start and/or driveability problems directly related to use
of 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors (including those subsequently
equipped with P&A Screamin’ Eagle 1450cc or
1550cc Performance Kits).
Required Dealer Action
1. Adhere to the flow chart in Figure 2 when handling customer
complaints regarding cold start and/or driveability
problems on affected motorcycles.
2. If the flow chart indicates that the fuel injectors are the
source of the problem, check the part numbers stamped
on the fuel injectors. While standing on the left side of
the motorcycle, the part number on the rear fuel injector
can be easily read with the aid of a flashlight.
3. If required, remove both 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors
following the procedure in the applicable 2006 Service
Manual. Install 25
°
fuel injectors, either part number
27709-06 or 27709-06A.
Figure 1. Fuel Injector Part Numbers
f2447x8x
Old Style 8°
Fuel Injector
New Style 25°
Fuel Injector
NOZZLE END
IMPORTANT NOTE
In the interest of preserving customer safety and satisfaction, always check for outstanding recalls whenever any motorcycle is brought into your
dealership for either maintenance or service.
©2006 HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR COMPANY
ROUTING SERVICE
MANAGER
SALES
MANAGER
PARTS
MANAGER
LEAD
TECHNICIAN
TECHNICIAN
NO.1
TECHNICIAN
NO. 2
TECHNICIAN
NO. 3
TECHNICIAN
NO. 4
RETURN
THIS TO
INITIAL HERE
M-1185 2 of 2
NOTE
Always replace both 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors on
affected motorcycles. Never mix 8
°
and 25
°
fuel injectors on
the same motorcycle.
NOTE
If the part numbers on the fuel injectors are rubbed off or otherwise
unreadable, count the number of orifices or holes in
the injector nozzle. The 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injector has
just three holes, while the 25
°
has six. See NOZZLE END in
Figure 1.
4. Update the ECM calibration. For those motorcycles
equipped with P&A Screamin’ Eagle 1450cc or 1550cc
Performance Kits, refer to h-dnet.com for the correct calibration
P/N.
Credit Procedure
Complete a separate warranty claim for each vehicle
serviced. Reference Service Bulletin M-1185 in the
“Comments” or “Notes” section and be sure to include the VIN
of the vehicle on which the service was performed. Fill in the
rest of the claim as follows:
Performance calibrations require pre-authorization from Technical
Service to be considered for warranty coverage unless
listed on the SWR.
Upon receipt of the properly completed claim, you will receive
the labor credit shown above.
Figure 2. Cold Start/Driveability Flow Chart
Correct condition or install
compatible components.
Are cold start or driveability
problems still evident?
Check the following:
● Fuel has the recommended octane rating and is not
contaminated.
● IAC operation.
● Spark plug condition.
● Engine is configured correctly (with the appropriate air
cleaner and exhaust).
● Vehicle configuration is supported by the correct
calibration. Refer to Calibration Information on h-dnet.com.
Does the vehicle pass inspection?
YES NO
Check fuel pressure. Is
fuel pressure between
58-62 psi?
YES NO
Replace the 8° fuel
injectors with 25°
fuel injectors.
Update ECM
calibration.
Check part numbers
stamped on fuel injectors.
Are 8° or 25° angle cone spray
fuel injectors installed?
8° 25°
Refer to SYMPTOMS
DIAGNOSTIC in
Digital Technician.
Problem
resolved.
YES NO
5388
Applicable DT Code
Refer to SYMPTOMS
DIAGNOSTIC in
Digital Technician.
Applicable DT Code
ENTRY FIELD ENTER
Claim Type PRD, MC
Problem Part No. 27625-06
Detail Part No. 27709-06 or 27709-06A
Quantity of Detail Part No. 2
Description 25
°
Angle
Cone
Spray
Fuel Injectors
Labor Code 5388
Time 1.10 Hours
Customer Concern Code 9203
Condition Code 5388