Rider57, here in Arizona they do have Motorcycle emmission tests.

 

Phil K, here's some info to answer your concerns.

1- The narrow band O2 sensor produces the voltage directly from a zirconium dioxide cell. It is the source of the 0-1V signal. A signal of .250V means nothing more to the life of the sensor than a signal of .500V or .750V. [/align][/align]2- The operating range of a narrow band O2 sensorproduces a calibrated 0-1V output over air fuel ranges of17.0:1 to 12.5:1.[/align][/align]3- The output characteristics of narrow band O2 sensors are most accurate in the 14.0:1 to 15.0:1 range. The O2 IED happens to be working at 14.2:1, which happens to be in the range where NBO2 sensor output is quite linear. While the response curve of nbo2 sensors is more abrupt over 800mV, it is still within the design limits of the O2 sensor.[/align][/align]4- The OEM fuel map in the Harley always has the bike running at 12.0:1just after engine startup. There are significant portions of the OEM HD fuel maps and the HD Stage 1/2 upgrades that putopen loop AFRs at 12.5:1 AFR.[/align][/align]5- If you use SERT to tune the Bias Tables in the HD ECM, you can set the bias values to 792, which happens to be .792V or a value higher than the O2 IED artificially alters the bias table value to. So HD has obviously determined that higher voltages at the O2 sensor are not hurting it. For those who do not know what the Bias voltage means, that is the voltage that the ECM looks for to determine rich/lean values coming from the O2 sensor.[/align][/align]6- In the latest releases of HD ECM code, the engine goes through several stages of heat management. As part of the overheating code, the engine will richen the fuel mixture to 12.0:1. All this is explained in the latest Manual for PRO SERT.[/align][/align]7- Riders that have pulled their PowerCommander and TFI's that use O2 eliminators off their 07/08 (including 06 Dyna's) bikes, then reconnected the orignal O2 sensors have reported no ill effects from the engine and are not reporting ECM codes. Considering the number of riders/shops that typically set idle/low RPM fuel maps much richer than required (11.5 to 12.5:1), you would think that this group of riders would report instant failure of their O2 sensors and error codes appearing when they changed equipment.[/align][/align][font=arial][color=#0000ff][size=2]Don't take my word for it.Below isan engineering data sheet for narrow band O2 sensors.Ask the "nay sayers" to find one word about a too much voltage output hurting the life of the narrow band sensor or too rich a mixture decreasing life. Ask them to find an "engineering or automotivestudy" that shows the output of the zirconium dioxide cell degrades faster with fuel mixtures falling into the operating range of the o2 sensor. Ask them to find a well know and trusted performance Harley mechanic to prove that running an O2 sensor is going to decrease the life of the sensor. The best they will probably do is mention a "friend of a friend" that had a problem with an O2 sensor after doing some work on the bike. And I'd be willing to bet I could explain the premature failures of any O2 se

 

cruiser85257

You are correct. Could'nt have stated it better myself.

The 1400F range is a nominal safe temp. Historical data shows full failure at 1900F,60% failures at 1700F and 98% failures at 1500F.
There are no recorded failures at 1400F and below.

And by the way, the test item came in today. Testing tonight. I wont post data or results until I get an OK from Steve.

 

I got a new 08 police Road King last Friday, due to snow couldn't take it on a breaking run until yesterday. I put 140 on it and change to O2 IED's this morning an went for another ride. Bike is bone stock 103, I noticed a difference in acceleration right away and over all got better performance, not earth shaking butbetter. The biggest difference from yesterday was how usable 6th gear was in the same type of terrain. On the heat, it was warmer today but notice less heat from motor. I was riding with a friend on an 08 ultra, by the time we got his heat gun out of the shop 15 min. had gone by but my motor was still 10 degrees cooler front and rear cylinder than his. At this point I'm sold.

 

Finally got a thermometer! Stock 08 SERK/FLHRSE except for IEDs - air temp low 60's. 20 mile ride with some city, short twisties and highway riding. Oil teimp at the sump 210, rear head to left of spark plug 280, front head to left of plug 220. I am going on a longer ride tomorrow and will try and take some more data then. Eventually I will try and do at least the 20 mile ride without the IEDs but I have been working on my shovelhead so we will see how that goes.
cruiser85257 I am wondering about your rush slipons and if I can do this with my bike and just the IEDs? Was thinking of getting the FuelMoto pipes that Jamie is making for the kit with the PCIII. I am not sure if he is familiar with the IEDS but I will talk with him next week. TIA

 

Hey Rider. We have emissions testing here in Massachusetts. I'm also waiting for the rain to stop so I can pick up my new 08 EGC (maybe Mon/Tues). The first thing I'm gonna do is add the IEDs. Thanks again to all you guys for the great information. It's my first Harley and I'm like a little kid the week before Christmas. I'm glad Steve came up with these and I'll certainly patronize his business based on what everyone has posted here. I emailed him recently and I had an answer the next day. He could teach others a lot about customer serviceJoe

 

Well I couldn't get away from not putting on some kind of fuel management. I was getting a heat score on my heat shield with the new Bub7's. The Stage 1 down load wasn't rich enough for my pipes. The service manager told me the download was more suited for the high flow A/C with slip ons.

I'm glad I took your advise cruiser and started the break in with the IED's installed. It could have been worse. After I showed them the mark and told them to look at how blue the pipe under the heat shield was, right away they told me I had to put a Fuel Pak on.

So with the Stage 1, it adjusts the timing, rich ens it up and raises the Rev limiter. Just not enough for the big *** pipes I've got. Without the IED's, the damage could have been worse. This showed up after only 155 miles (250 km's)

The dealer was pretty good about it. They put the fuel pak in right away, ate the labor. I've contacted Bub Enterprises about the heat shield. I had to send them the pictures as well as my bill of sale and where it was installed and proof of the Stage 1 download being purchased at the same time. If Bub will not honer the heat shield, the dealership will because it was their idea that I didn't need it.(The Fuel Pak).

Should be interesting on running the V&H Fuel Pak piggy backed with the IED's. Any idea what the AFR should be then?? I can only guess? Any one know what the base AFR would be for the fuel pak? 13.8?? 13.5??? V&H won't tell anyone so I was hoping for a ball park figure.


BTW Rider57......... I think I know what your testing. Steve told me yesterday......How about a smiley face or a frown???



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[8D]

 

BIKERBEHAVIORIST:

Steve is the best man to consult. I know Jamie also and he seems to be genuinely interested in our well being. Steve I know will never try to sell you anything you don't need.

If your not going to use the power commander, then why buy Jamies slip ons? My Rush (2 inch) slip ons work great with the IED's. In fact My temperatures were cooler running a stock air kit and the Rush slip ons, compared to running stock exhaust and stock air kit.

I think you would be very Happy with the Rush 2 inch and just the IED's. I love the way my bike runs now.

 

Heywood, I'm amazed that with the IED's and a stage one that you still built up enough heat to score those pipes so soon. I don't recall seeing on any of the forums where anyone else has had this problem. I just wonder if something else on your bike is not working as it should???