I know, but my point is that IED's don't address AFR needs outside closed-loop mode, and therein lies their biggest limitation. That's the crux of it: IED's don't function outside closed-loop mode, so if you make any change to a stock bike other than mufflers you'll either need to perform a Stage 1 download (poor result for the money) or buy a real EFI controller. There will be no problem with the bike's performance in closed-loop mode, which will be idle and part-throttle (<50%)--i.e. cruising speeds.

 

No, I haven't installed or used IED's and don't think they are "snake oil." They do serve a limited niche. If a person wants to keep a bike stock or only add aftermarket slip-ons IED's will address heat issues and perhaps regain some lost throttle response brought upon by the lean stock AFR's.

We all know their limitations by now so I won't blather on about that again. I didn't read all 300+ pages of this thread and didn't notice the personal attacks you refer to, but it isn't really necessary since nobody should have an interest in coercing or browbeating anyone to buy or not buy IED's or anything else. The thread seems to have aired out the pros and cons about IED's, with lots of extraneous filler material in between , and prospective buyers can learn from that.

 

Yes it is a shame Harley did not make wide band set up, I put a Harley race fueler on my bike and ran a dyno run my bike in open loop ran very rich which I can adjust. But in close loop I am running the ied. I would like to keep the closed loop lean for good mileage but not as lean as Harley wants. Here’s a post of a dyno run with the race fueler I also ask the tuner to tell me what the afr is at idle and at a steady 3000 rpms he told me at idle it was about 18.1 and at cruse it was running at 15.1 (I did not have the ied on when I did this) I do not know why at idle the afr was at 18.1 I am hopping he made a mistake. The nice thing about the race fueler is it is cheap I only paid $70.and it works well with the Harley ECM. I am sure that you can run both race fueler and ied to take care of both modes For under $200.Yea you could buy a sert or a pc3 and get it dyno but why, the bike is design to run hot and when I ran a sert I only gain about 1 to 2 horse more to me it is not worth it. (I spent $400. on the sert and $350. on the dyno tune)

 

I have yet to see a bike that has issues of magnitude in open-loop.

 

I have never had a check engine light while using the IED's, XiED's or testing the ViED's.
A check engine light comes on during run and not crank.

 

It is not your AFR being too lean in open-loop. It's the VE's not being correct. The PCV covers up the 110's inherent problems buy masking it with fuel. Thats not the cure. There are different break points in the 110 for the ecu to take on detonation set within the map and they are not correct, they are close but not close enough.

 

I have been considering buying an '09 model bagger but hadn't seen any comments on here from '09 owners about the XIED. I checked the Nightrider site and saw '09s listed but a note that they were not being released for FLH models. So I Emailed them and promptly got back a response from Steve:

"Harley made some changes for the 09 Touring bike fly-by-wire system. The changes seem to be in either the ECM, internal programming or wiring harness. But the changes did create some issues with the XIED's that I am not happy with. Until I am satisfied with the performance and certain that all issues have been resolved, I am withholding certification for the 09 Touring bikes."

I LIKE this guy's attitude and his response.

I just wonder if the Moco will screw up their mickey-mouse EFI systems even worse for the 2010 models.

 

System dupped it. No delete option.

 

Just got the bike and it runs hotter than the shovelhead that I had. Will these nightrider 02 IED's work on an 06 SG? I sure hope so. I just bought a premium oil cooler from MOCO. I've got SE slipons and stock EFI, I am dumb when it comes to EFI, but I'm learning allot here.

 

Since I have an 2009, I'm thinking about going back to the factory ECM program and just installing the FL-XiED's. I'm tired of the tweaking of the TSS and it still runs hot and pings.

Ronster2