nota bene
n : a Latin phrase (or its abbreviation) used to indicate that
special attention should be paid to something; "the
margins of his book were generously supplied with
pencilled NBs"

 

Without the high-flow airbox, the DL would provide effectively richer mixture in the open-loop areas of operation. But those were already (presumably) rich-enough for anybody anyway.

During closed-loop too much fuel will initially be provided but will get pulled out in the end. As a result of that, depending on whether you want to believe the Adaptive Fuel system does things open-loop or not, it could well be that the newly-programmed more fuel there would bet pulled out, too. Maybe more, maybe less. That would depend on how much closed-loop area the high-flow airbox would affect.

Look at http://i36.tinypic.com/emv05.jpg where the left column is for all-stock and the right column is for high-flow airbox with slip-on mufflers on an 08 touring rig. The horns and tails on the left of the VE graphs are me making sure all four of those graphs had the colors synchronized.

I'll assume the right column is indicative of a typical "stage 1 download".

See the changes in the AFR and VE tables? (there are some in the spark timing tables, too)

Ponder it and shout if you have any questions.

 

glens, thanks for responding.

I ask because I'm having difficulties finding answers to my question/problem. Ping! I am getting absolutely no where with my stealer and HD. Ping has been with me at hard roll on since new and stock form. All I have is slip ons and NO AC. Will more fuel help reduce or eliminate my ping? I have tried the Xieds again, no change. Now I'm thinking maybe Stage 1 DL before jumping into a complete tuner. I'm thinking of the S1 DL over the TFI or Cobra. Any ideas?

 

This is a very common problem with stock bikes and especially after the volume of air is changed. Just adding fuel may or may not help pinging. Your best course of action is to find a good tuner and buy one of the many Delphi programmers. A good tuner will get the AFR/VE tables correct and also replace adjust the ignitions tables with something that will yield better performance and also will not ping. A Harley should not be ridden below 2500rpm and especially should not go WOT below 2500 rpm in any gear but 1st. Just because they now have six speeds does not mean you can nail the throttle at lower rpm's. Any bike will ping if the motor is "lugged" low enough.

 

They put a higher-flow airbox on without managing the fuel change requirements and put it on a dyno?

You're moving more air at more-open throttle, thus more measured power. But the mixture is incorrect for that much airflow. The fuel being provided is the amount for the standard airbox (discounting for the moment any changes wrought as a result of using IEDs). It's too lean now.

Inasmuch as the new airbox altered the airflow at all for low rpm ranges, the tune would be brought to "normal" by virtue of closed-loop operation. But it's been my experience that a "sharper" exhaust sound indicates leaner running. A more "muffled" sound indicates richer running.

It'd be rather expensive to have just for datalogging, but you could pick up a TTS tuner and find out exactly where and how much spark was pulled. Then you could bump up the appropriate VE numbers a tad and/or pull a couple degrees of timing there. Heck, while you're at it, load a current base map and datalog a couple of rides to have the software autotune your VE tables for you! Oh, and if your speedometer is a couple percent off, you could adjust that, as well.

You can have a complete TTS tuning system at your door (in the US at any rate) for about $400. That ain't hardly expensive at all. Relative peanuts compared to initial outlay for the bike. With it, you can go from eating a blue-plate special to caviar for no additional charge whenever you ride your bike.

 

The SEAC was put on without a fuel mgt system because of the hypothesis that the ECM would have enough "learning capability" to adapt to the increased volume of air that goes into the engine. While there are various indications that this might be the case for the 96 engine (S&S quick set-up kit, american iron articles, nightrider) there are quite a few contradictionary voices to be heard. Just to be sure I had the bike put on the dyno. The CVO ran very well with the XIED's (posted the dyno sheets to prove it), but for the 110 engine the XIED's are apparently not enough to accommodate the increased air-flow SEAC, and I will probably buy a directlink (no ion sensing however) or sert (not seen any TTS tuners in the Netherlands yet and do not like the Alpha N approach of Thundermax or the piggy back systems) What puzzles me however that you can get a power increase on the dyno while getting less performance on the road, so much for all the nice sheets.

 

I would definitely listen to the "other" voices on this one. Those other other ones are wrong.

Good for you. Now you know the truth of the matter. Congratulations!

They don't do anything for an increased-airflow any package. At least nothing that's not almost totally indirect in origin. All they do is act as an external means of adjusting the Delphi's Closed Loop Bias tables all the same everywhere. Some of them stay within the limits of the O2 sensors (as indicated by warnings in the SERT and TTS software documentation) [the standard IEDs], and some of them go beyond.

The directlink should not change anything in terms of ion sensing via the sparkplugs/coils. It merely is one method of adjusting some of the Delphi tuning tables. I fetched a copy of their software to see what all it would do, but it won't run without their USB key inserted into the computer so I couldn't make any determinations whatsoever. I highly doubt it's nearly as capable/comprehensive as the SERT or the TTS tuner which replaced it in the family.

The Daytona Twin-Tec TCFI replacement wide-band O2-using EMS uses the MAP sensor for load-based spark advance control, otherwise it's quite similar to the Thundermax which doesn't use load-based anything.

Any piggyback system, even if it uses Alpha-N-looking adjustment tables (i.e. PC-III) will be exactly as load-based as the system it's piggy-backing on. They piggyback only makes fixed adjustments to whatever the native system comes up with, however it does so.

You get the power increase because more air is being moved through the system. You didn't get well-usable power increase (maybe effectively a decrease) because the mixture isn't correct. Get it right and enjoy the fully-realized extra power. With the TTS you can tune a solid 90% of your riding style just using their software and special datalogs it creates for the purpose. Then, if you want, you can spring a few bucks for a dyno run to polish off the 100% throttle areas you can't do on your own without running carefully-controlled "dyno" datalogging runs with the TTS software (but you can do them manually if you have the inclination and adequate skill).

 

Thank You...

 

I just read in a mag which is at work that if there is not the correct squish area in the heads that a bike can ping also.

 

"squish" ?