Cruiser85257, Hey man, I'am with you, I love my setup!

 

I've been in this thread before (250 pages ago or something!) This is an update on XiED's on HDI International models. I have 2,800 Kilometres and have had the XiED's from day 1. Bearing in mind it has been "winter" here in Australia since I picked up my new bike...

Definite power increase on my '08 FXSTC Softail custom. All tied in with the Khrome Werks 3 inch HP-Plus mufflers and K&N standard airbox air filter. ABSOLUTESUTELY the best bang for the bucks spent!

As I have posted elsewhere my bike runs well against Power Commander PC3 and SERT race tuner equipped bikes. In 2 cases the riders had spent between 2.5 and 3K dollars (Aussie) on their setups and were quite surprised when my setup pulled away quite convincingly. These guys are regular riding mates of mine and they were having a real go believe me !!

Another mate of mine has an '07 Heritage set up just like mine and it pulls almost as well,considering it's a heavier bike to start with. (however he's a skinny fuc*** and I'm 91KG!).So what I'm saying is my bike is not a "one off"

Even the supplier of the Xied's is the first to admit that a dyno tuned bike with a race fueller of whatever kind will develop more ultimate Horsepower at max revs, The question is....

"How often are you up at those revs on the road?"

I'm happy with mine and wont be doing any further mods,and all I've spent is under $600 Aussie IN TOTAL for all the above listed mods. No dealer cost for labour because it's all really Mickey Mouse to do.

(Another) very happy customer....

 

n a tall boy touring seat on a 2007 RG and with the IED we never fell the heat at cruising speed.

Good morning
I run the standard IED since last april.(8000 m.)
Remove it for a visit to the stealer.After 10 mns. on the hyways, the wife said(where this HEAT come from?) From the engine my dear, I have to remove the 2 littles wires before the check-up.That's the way the bike run last year.Since last Daytone B-W, we ruoming home from the stealer,I put the IED on and take a 2 hrs. drive.My wife said (you better let the bike run with these 2 littles thing on.)

I don't know for you but for me, the std. IED make my bike feel a lot better and that what I'm looking for.

-Less heat from the engine
-Better sound from the pipes
-No surging at lower rpm
-My wife very happy.

Thank you Steve at NR.com and Cruiser for the talk.

 

I don't have anything against nightrider and I never, ever, said the product would not do what it advertises. Where the hell are you guys getting these ideas from?

Have a careful read of http://nightrider.com/parts/hd2007HD...age_divide.htm where he plainly and correctly states "The most accurate range for narrow band O2 sensors is the .400v to .800v or the 15.0:1 to 14.2:1 AFR ranges. Once the fuel ratio is outside these limits, the accuracy of measurement rapidly changes."

13.8:1 is outside those limits, and cannot be accurately maintained by the sensors over time (sometimes within any given running session, even). Look carefully at the chart at the bottom of the page. See how the voltage output of 0.9 covers everywhere from 14.0:1 to 12.5:1, depending on the heat of the device? 14.1:1 or so is about the limit of where the reading is relatively stable. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't know why they have taken steps beyond their own sage advice in that page and produced the XiEDs. Perhaps he was experimenting and found that on some (maybe most) engines he could pretty much get away with 13.8:1 a fair amount of the time? This would be a very individual thing and cannot be "counted on" even then.

The issue I have, inasmuch as there even is one, is where these devices are "recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake" (http://nightrider.com/parts/ in various places). First of all, this is a poor recommendation even if just slip-on mufflers and/or replacement stock-type airbox are considered. If a different type of exhaust system or a different type of airbox are installed, much, much more needs to be done with the EFI programming than these things can provide. In point of fact, these things don't provide any sort of fuel management whatsoever. All they do is raise the entire VE tables in the EFI programming in one fell swoop. Listen carefully, I'm getting tired of saying it, if you alter your breathing apparatus (especially with a different type of equipment) you require a new "shape" to the fueling calculations, not merely lifting the "shape" you already have. If you achieve your new "shape" you don't need these devices because you've already done the best that can be done. All these devices are for is either a factory-fresh EFI/breathing package, or an all-factory "stage 1" EFI/breathing package. Even then, they do not do what they do the best it can be done.

So the two points are: 1) some of these devices cause the O2 sensor to behave "out of range" (on a good day). 2) none of these devices are appropriate, either by themselves, or in conjunction with more direct methods of correction, for breathing parts alterations.

I know, "who cares?", but if you've invested roughly $20,000 US, why would you want to save maybe a couple hundred in the short term only like that? Why not go without beer and cigarettes for a couple of weeks, if that's what it takes, and go for the gusto instead?

If I had a new bike and it was still all stock, I'd send for a set of the regular O2 IEDs and slap them on while I researched further what direction I wanted to go in terms of engine tuning and running parts. Once I'd changed even the mufflers, I know already that the tuning is not going to be nearly as good as it can be without addressing some programming changes, and that these devices will have outlived their usefulness for me. Plain and simple.

How is that "against" nightrider, and how does it say these do not elevate the entire VE table? Oh, I see, maybe you've "got" me a little on that last part. NR doesn't say the entire VE table gets elevated. They say these only affect closed-loop operation. That is emphatically incorrect. They do affect closed-loop directly, which affects open-loop indirectly. What they do, precisely and emphatically, is elevate the entire VE tables.

 

We get it from your obsessive compulsive behavior of making a page long post about why you shouldn't use them anytime someone posts that they worked fine for them.



BTW: I don't smoke or drink

 

My obsessive compulsiveness extends only to wanting to be entirely clear about explaining what it is they do, how it is they do it, what our EFI does with what they do, who should use them under what conditions, and what everyone else with other conditions should be doing instead. It's not about any animosity or trying to sell other products. It's all about trying to get folks to understand so they can take informed decisions.

 

understandable,never hurts to know the downside of a product when trying to make a purchasing decision ,just sayin.

 

Once, again my bike runs so sweet,WITH xieds, Rush slipons and K&N replacement element!!!!! I guess all my tables are good!!!

 

I believe you Sandpa, your setup is very similar to mine.

Just curious what does Jamie do to modify the Rush Mufflers?

Thanks,

Dave

 

Cruiser85257, Fuelmoto uses their design balles with a high quality material and new Rush mufflers, the left is 1.75 and deflected or restricted and the right is 2.00. This makes a simulated 2 in 1 setup using the oem headpipes. The dyno data is very impressive on med to low in torque.Go to their web sit or call them for more info. I just wanted something different, everybody around here runs reg. Rush or Rineharts. But thanks to you i found the xieds. THANKS!!!!!