ARe you saying that you now need ECM calibration with your setup?? Take a look at page 36 AIM Sept 2008. A rider puts Samson s/o's and an Arlen Ness Big sucker with no calibration, fuel devices or iED's and his plugs are ok according to him and the bike runs fine. The guru of the mag says "The stock ECM on models with the O2 sensor system will adapt to small equipment changes with no problem."
So, once again, we are still in the conundrum of EFI. So many opinions and no definitve answer. How do the average rider with basic mechanical knowledge decide who is right and who is wrong or is there a middle ground. When you spend over 20K for a motorcycle, why talk about going on the cheap to arrive at the proper fueling system; nobody in their right mind would do that. But why spend more than is necessary to achieve the PROPER results?
Is there someone out there whose credentials allow them to be termed expert?? There has to be...

 

From another perspective if people are worried about their 20K investment: how many engines have failed because of the IED's XIED's or VIED's? In this thread the worst that has come up is that in some cases the XIED's do not seem to work (i.e. solve the problems that were already there). So then you're out 100 US$. Of course you can ruin your (heavily) modified engine, but it will run like **** first. So how many people will modify their engine, not have a fuel system apart from XIED's, overheat and pinging the engine, letting the ECM go in limp home mode (lean) or bellow black smoke and sooth, have the plugs disfunctioning (rich) before they get the message: I changed cams throttle body air intake and exhaust, hey maybe I should get a sert-tune. Some will say with light mods you won't notice damaging the engine in the long run, but still it will run worse, hotter etc than before won't it.

 

Ha, ha, only in America! You're not allowed writing **** on a HD-forum, afraid that some of your readers are too feeble to withstand such abuse?

 

CR- I to have questioned those that state the XIED's will not work in open mode, I would like to know what problems they will cause, my bike runs great the plugs have gone from snow white to an off gray, the heat has dropped so I am happy so what if the do not work in open mode I do NOT ride at high RPM and suspect few other do also.

 

Dr. Harley I am merely pointing out what a new article in a different magazine says. I do know this much, if this were an older Harley with a Carburetor on it, a change in jetting would be required with a change of air kit and exhaust.

Now our Bikes are fuel injected and there seems to be a wide difference of opinion. So who is right? As far as I think using an XIED or an IED is a form of calibrating the ECU. Either device makes the Bike richer. That's not speculation or theory, it's fact. Forget about me and what I say. How about all the other people who have tried them and come back saying the same things about them repeatedly. Things like runs smoother, better throttle response, engine runs cooler, and they see a positive change in the color of their plugs. Are all these people wrong?

An Old School Mechanic relies on his instincts to judge how a Bike is running. He rides the Bike and uses his sense of touch to feel for excessive vibration, also looks for things like surging, and running too hot. All conditions that our Bikes displayed when brand new because they were too lean. The Old School Mechanic looks at the spark plugs and knows how to read them. He looks into the exhaust for telltale signs of running too rich or too lean. Not anyone thing alone brings him to a conclusion, but the total of everything.

So look at our Bikes through the eyes and senses of an Old School Mechanic. Originally they vibrated more, they ran hot, the plugs were bone white and the exhaust almost had the appearance of being brand new. Conclusion: Too Lean.

Now he puts an XIED/IED on the Bike. Takes it for another ride. First off he notices the Bike runs smoother. Throttle response and acceleration have improved. He stops and checks the spark plugs. Where before they had no color, now they have a light shade of tan. He looks into the exhaust pipe and sees it has now become a beautiful shade of charcoal. He also notes the fuel mileage has improved.

This is fact, not theory. For the average owner he would be delighted to see these improvements. The majority of those who have tried either the IED or XIED are delighted.

No harm is going to come to an engine that displays the right signs. I had my last service done by an Indy. He test rode the Bike and commented on how well the Bike ran. That's good enough for me.

Until I see or feel something that tells me the bike is not running correctly I will run it exactly as it is. Not to take away from the AutoMax, or the SERT, or Fuel Pack, or Cobra unit. They all work to various degrees and prices.

For how I ride I have the right solution and I am very Happy with how my Bike runs.

Just a Happy Customer...

 

Cruiser85257, could not of said it better myself

 

An expert is not going to solve this, as all setups are not the same. The ECM will correct within a controlled range. Once outside that range it sets a code, That's why the codes are there!

I can give you a nice example. Stock bike runs well with no issues after the first 100 miles. Prior to the first 100 miles if was a little sluggish but ran OK. That is the ECM correcting for the variations in manufacturing. Now in this case let's assume it needed to richen the bike 10%. No code will be set as it's within the proper range. Now take the same bike and add slip-ons and it goes back to operating sluggish event after riding 100 miles. That is the ECM not having enough range left to make the corrections.

 

Quote from Steve at Nightriders:

 

First of all I want to thank everyone for their input. I have been following this thread for months. In June installed exhaust, SEAC and stage 1 download. Needless to say heat problem got worse. Extended city driving could not keep oil temp below 250-260. First of July ordered xied and installed. No pinging, no surging and can use 6th gear at 55 if I want but normally wait till 60 mph. Throttle responce is awesome. Great reduction in exhaust heat on right leg. Bike will still get hot after prolonged city driving but does take longer to get there. I am also dealing with 95+ temps here in the Houston area. Installed Sykes Performance billet oil cooler and temps now rarely get over 235, mostly stay between 220-230. Oil temp will stay 220 on 95 degree day driving 70-75mph. With bike stock was happy to only see 245 oil temp. Frequently saw much higher. Yes, I am running full synthetic in everything. Had the bike put on dyno last weekend and was guessing close to 80 hp from butt dyno. Well, I was a little disappointed. 77.6 @5250. At that point hp was not dropping off yet. Max torque was 89.6@3750, about 85@2500 and about 80@4750. Torque curve looks very flat from 2500-4000. This with xied installed. H-D dyno man was impressed. He had never heard of these before. Sorry, did not want hole drilled in my baffle for probe to fit so did not get any afr numbers. Exhaust is plenty loud already. Best stock fuel mileage was 38-39 mpg with 2500 on odometer. Best fuel mileage now has been 42.6 and I had a passenger. Riding solo it is 40+. I ride more aggresive solo. As a side note, first stage 1 download had heat management option as part of it and I hated it. Would go into heat management way to early (cut rear cylinder at idle). Oil temp at times was only 210 and rear cylinder temp next to spark plug was 310-320. Apparently they could not disable that function by itself because it was part of the download. They had to erase and then reinstall download without the heat management. Now life is even better. Am I happy with the xieds? Absolutely! Cruiser, Rider and everyone else thanks.

 

Very impressive Dyno numbers. 77.6 HP is quite impressive, your Torque numbers are looking good also.

How do you like those V&H 2 into 1's?

Thanks for sharing your results with us.