AW,

I guess it's no different than setting up the closed loop bias table to 798mv which results in 14.2. This has no effect on the settings that are for when the bike switches over to open loop. The Narrow Band sensors are only on the bike for closed loop operation. They have no effectwhen the Bike switches over to open loop. So whether the computer receives 450mv from the O2 sensor or 798mv, it is of no importance when the system switches over to open loop.

 

The differance is that when the tuners set the VE tables to hold a constent AFR of 13.2 and then turn on the Closed loop. The math then works a little different so the results are also a little different. I am suspect that the AFV will move the entire map this same percent. 14.7/14.2 or 3.5% I think the AFV is an accross the board thing and sence it is out of site it is out of mind. Most tunes are not revisited on the dyno 500 miles later and tested to see if final AFRs are sliding compared to the targets. Remember that with the SERT and the stock ECU that the AFR is included in the basic fuel calc and only verified in closed loop. The AFV is built buy the watching of the AFT and keeping the AFTaverage as close to 1 as possible.

AW

 

Exactly... If it was as easy as throwing a resistor into your 02 wire then all EFI would do it OR they would sell a potentiometer (variable resistor) to "tune" your 02 signal... They dont because it doesnt work right.

This "nightrider" 02 plug in is like throwing a rug over a hole in the floor... yeah it covers the hole, but now the rest of the floor is covered. Just fix the hole... TUNE YOUR BIKE RIGHT.

Im really surprised that it took 7 pages for someone to mention this.

Ebay is FULL of these "resistor" gimmicks. Shot down the world wide in ever auto / car community. Its just new to the HD world as EFI is new to the HD world. The only reason your seeing "cooler temps" is cause your dumping fuel into the engine. Confusing the hell of it.

Would you put one of these on your car or truck? They run closed loop EFI with 14.6-14.7 closed loop 02s...
I really would love it if this sort of thing did truly work. It would save me $100's of bucks!

 

[sm=popcorn.gif]

 

I plan to us this to my advantage in the SERT software as opposed to doing the same thing with hardware. It's all the same trick. What I plan to use is the o2's to dial in the entire center of the map to 14.2 and then set the top end targets to 13 and use my wideband to verify all of this including the top end is real close to 12.8 or so on the Innovate LM1.

When in dought, fall back to the basics and then use technology to your advantage.

AW

 

Thats my plan too. Ditching the bandaid Fuelpak for a SERT and dial it in with a wideband and the closed loop disabled. Then input my values into the SERT and enable 02

 

Donk, I didn't invent it, and I have already said when it comes to a Race Tuner my knowledge is extremely limited. I'm just trying to understand it.

Speaking of logic which was mentioned prior. I look at this whole thing logically.

It seems to me the system depends on the O2 sensor to establish 14.7. The NarrowBand is reading the AFR and sending a signal to the ECU for example 525mv. Which is below 14.7 thus triggering a response from the ECU to lean things out to reach its target of 14.7. Am I correct so far??

I guess I just don't see what harm can become by altering that signal to either richen or lean the engine.

I see guys on here all the time recommending setting the CL Bias Table to 798mv. Which changes the target goal from 14.7 to 14.2. What's the difference?

If this system is harmful to the bike I for one would like to know why??

 

People keepforgeting aboutthe AFV term. You have to look at theSERT basic math, the pulsewidth is made up from...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ snip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A constent developed from the injector size and engine displacement)

X

(AFV) ... this is a slowly moving +/- 10% correction that can't be reset with the SERT software

X

(Adaptive Fuel Tables VE Lookup) ... a multi celled table (of unknown size ofXby Y and tied to either MAP or TPS and RPM)developed on what the ECU learns from the O2 in closed loop only and cleared on reflash. Only seen in data logsas VE new. This is reset with a reflash.

X

(Main fuel tables VE Lookup) ... Based on the main VE table.

X

(MAP reading in KPA/100) ... This is almost never talked about but is apparently there looking at the VE values and that the system is claimed to be a speed density system. The VE table is RPM and Throttle angle based. Strangly the AFR targets and the timing tables are RPM and MAP based.

X

(Acceleration or Decel enrichment correction) ... only when acceleration is triggered and this trigger point is not adjustable but the amount is adjustable

X

(Warmup fuel correction)

X

(The desired AFR)... This is verified when in closed loop by the o2s and the PW is adjusted in small steps to attempt to get the targer bias table target voltage. This isadjusted by adding or subtracting the time of the PW. This swing is remembered by the ECU and,in time, if it detects a pattern, then slowlychanges theAFV and the Adaptive Fuel Tables as required.

 

After a few minutes with google. I am gonna back away from my previous thinking of "this wont work" to " this might work, but i wouldnt do it"

Any resistors used to modify the signal from the O2 sensor would need to be set up as a voltage divider (you need 2resistors per O2 Sensor. So $5 in parts in total) to obtain a useful result. Putting a single resistor inlinewith the O2 signal wire will ONLY result in lower current being sent tothe computer and will most likely make no difference.The signal from the O2 sensor is a voltage between 0 and 1V, highervoltage means the mixture is richer. Normally the average value is around0.45-0.47V or so. You could "fool" the computer into thinking you wererunning lean by dividing down the voltage (using the simple voltagedivider mentioned above), to say 0.40V, so the computer would give a bit more gas to compensate.


Oh and here is a handy link for making your own 02 bypasses. Someone was looking for this earlier.
http://zero-signal.org/o2/O2bypass.html.htm

 

Donk, here is the write up from nightrider with a schematic showing exactly how he built the IED.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/h...olt_divide.htm

So now your saying it might work. Based on test results by many riders I would say more than it might work.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.