So where are the AFRs in your results?

Here are a couple references to the same source, with varying levels of detail. Look for posts by CDN. RG in https://www.hdforums.com/m_3593725/printable.htm and https://www.hdforums.com/m_3533110/printable.htm

 

Glens,
when the loved one drinks one or two glasses of wine a day, and feels very good with it, you should not keep repeating he/she is an alcoholic.

 

Buy the IED, even Glens recommends it for a stock bike.For less than a hundred dollars how can you go wrong.
&nbsp\\;
https://www.hdforums.com/fb.asp?m=3609373

 

few people will get this, funny!

 

Devils advocate........Glens, If our ECM is in fact adaptive, would it not add fuel in open loop equal to what it learned in closed loop?

 

That seems totally logical to me. If it needed more fuel in closed loop, it would most assuredly need more fuel in open loop.

 

BTW, sorry cruiser. I know you asked&nbsp\\;me to leave this thread 25 pages ago, but Glens has brought alot to the table in the understanding of how our&nbsp\\;ECM's actually work. This threads greatest contribution to&nbsp\\;us all, could just be more knowledge about our EFI systems, and how they work.&nbsp\\;Not to drum up buisness for Nightrider, as it would seem you intended.&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\;

 

Thank you. Yes. If the tune were correct, that is the VE tables were accurately populated for the running gear, if more fuel were needed closed loop it would most assuredly be need open loop, in the same proportions. This is exactly what our EMS is designed to do.

Say you primarily ride in a low population density region where fuel is just gasoline. Then you visit a large city for a weekend, where they primarily sell oxygenated fuel to combat smog. Your ECU will detect, while closed loop, that more fuel is needed to achieve the programmed-in AFR. You will also need that same amount extra fuel while open loop to prevent a lean condition, and it provides it for you.

The problem with this system when used with un-VE-tabled parts is that those parts rarely, if ever, affect the flow through the engine in a totally linear manner, like the different fuel does. The response of the EMS is linear, even for a non-linear change you made to the system. What should be a correct response becomes incorrect because it was based upon incorrect information. The rule of thumb for computers is: garbage in, garbage out. You cannot expect correct output when you feed it incorrect input.

Again, this pertains directly to the *IEDs because when the tune is correct, you are feeding it garbage and it will thus output garbage.

Especially, it pertains when you add/change breathing apparatus without informing the EMS about it, or after-the-fact altering the outputs to compensate with some sort of piggyback unit.

When you combine both, different parts and garbage input, you really are creating, at best, a non-optimal situation. Why would you spend upwards of 20K for something and then quibble over a few hundred as opposed to a hundred to change the way it fundamentally works? It does not make sense to me. Not in the least.

But I want to here reiterate, for the sake of Cruiser, et al, that if you want to mitigate some of the heat of running stoichiometric AFR while you further evaluate your options, and you are running a factory-correct system, the standard IEDs would be a reasonable stop-gap measure.

True. But I instead have in mind someone who drinks half a fifth of vodka of an evening. I have never had a problem drinking. But that does not mean I do not have a drinking problem...

I guess most folks around here would get the impression I am all gloom and doom. I feel that I have a very good sense of humor. Thank you for grasping and appreciating that! What happened was I had replied to a post, but upon subsequent analysis had determined it was incorrect. Since I could not delete the post outright, I instead opted to send it to the bit-bucket as best I could. You got it. High-five to you, brother!

 

My intent was to make people aware that they did not have to go broke trying to make their bikes run right.I tried the IED and was so impressed I passed it along.Quite a few other people who tried them seem to share my opinion.

 

That would seem logical if the stock fuel map was 14.7 accross the board but it is not.Open loop supplies more fuel at a rate of 12.5 AFR at some points.The problem with the stock Bike was the too lean condition in closed loop.