I do not want to post a paragraph at a time and not use punctuation
Suffice it to say for now the the IEDs sound like a winner with caveats
Not so much the XIEDs

 

14.7/14.2 is a 3.5% swing in fueling.

So the entire closed loop section should wind up at 14.2 with the VE table first getting adjusted by the AFT by 3.5%.

Next the ECU will notice that the entire AFV has moved so the AFV will take over and slide the AFT back to 0% and the AFV will end up at 3.5% and the AFT will a wind up averaging close to 0 again.

Now the AFV comes into effect when the motor is at WOT so the entire WOT is even fatter than the 12.5 that was factory preprogramed for or about 12.1 AFR

Now 85% of the time Harleys are in closed loop and 15% of the time it's a little too fat for $75

Now if you install the o2 eliminators the o2 fedback math will settle down and the fat WOT will be the only issue.

That may be a reasonable compromize.&nbsp\\;Testing will be the only way to prove this.

AW

 

Question for you Al, and I'm not trying to be a smartass.
If the O2 sensors are only in the picture during closed loop operation, How and why would the open loop operation be influenced by their presence?

 

Whittlebeast ?&nbsp\\; I am trying to understand what you have stated, IIRC if you install 02 eliminators only it will leave you in open loop mode only, and that the ecu would put the default AFR at about 12.5-1 at all throttle postions. Am I wrong?&nbsp\\; Thanks Doc

 

whittlebeast is on it
The learned adaptive fuel factor is maintained in non-volatile memory
It is applied to each calculation in every mode
It can be manually electrically reset only at the shop
The range is quite wide several times three point five percent

Exactly as wb stated
But his AFR figures are only correct if you have not altered plumbing
without a perfectly appropriate flash

 

I have not measured the limp home AFR but maybe 12 point 5 is close
Have not a clue where that figure came from though have seen it thrown around
It is certainly not just one fixed ratio for all eventualities but is enough to
preclude catastrophic temperatures while still allowing motivation

I would guess it would be more like high thirteens or low fourteens with the eliminators
Whatever is set in the target tables
The eliminators really just make the ECU think all is well with the injector timings
derived from the tablebased calculations factored by the current AFV
It does not just leave it in open-loop mode at all times but rather the ECU thinks it
is in closed loop and all is well
I understand it that way and experimentation has seemed to prove it out

The NB sensors output roughly zero to one volt DC but if you measure the voltage on the
disconnected leads from the ECU you will see 5 VDC so the sensor output is providing a bias
The eliminators seem to provide that median bias
Electricians should be able to figure out how that is with simple calculations

I normally use proper punctuation and try to avoid mixing words like here and hear
but this wackedout site and my autospellcheck conspire against me

 

Have got to fly
Am a few hours late already leaving for a few days

Something for you all to chew on while I am gone

Like whittlebeast has said with some additions now by me

So long as your VE tables are appropriately populated for your running setup
comma
by using the simple even if well constructed voltage divider between your lambda
sensors and your ECU you will be creating a situation where the injector timings
will increase proportionately everywhere across the board and in all running
conditions

Decide for yourselves whether that is good or bad or to what degree in either
direction

If you have dicked in any way with anything else to either make the VE table values
become inappropriate
i.e. incorrect
by altering any intake or exhaust componentry aside from perhaps a K and N stock
replacement filter element
or by relocating other sensors or otherwise tricking out their operational interfaces
then you will have the two AFV factors wind up jumping all over the place over
time as you operate in various conditions with varying incorrect VE table cell values
or by obtaining air temperature values that might not be changing as consistently
as they would by design
parenthesis
think of perhaps a crosswind blowing into the airbox changing the air temp reading
whereas it might not do it so wildly if the sensor were more protected in its
more steady vacuum hiding behind the throttle plate rather than being more out in
the weather so to speak

The most important thing in a system which has derived airflow values instead of
directly read ones with a MAF is to have the VE tables accurately populated.

This is why even though it might be better in some respects to do it than not
if you get a factory VE table download for components which you do not exactly
have then you are still rolling the dice

I have a much more detailed post waiting in the wings for when the site gets
better
I am guessing the server has suffered the Microsoft malady of being compromised
or the other MS malady of merely becoming unstable over time all by itself

I will never ever be able to understand why anybody would actually use that crap
in a production setting or on a public network

 

If 14.2 is the lowest the ECU will allow why is Steve recommending the XIED's at 13.8 if it wont let the ECU go any lower than the 14.2?

 

Thanks Glens!&nbsp\\; I have a set of PC 02 eliminators and I will try them to see what happens, as far as rideablity, and will report back.&nbsp\\; Thanks Doc

 

From Glens post

snip
think of perhaps a crosswind blowing into the airbox changing the air temp reading
whereas it might not do it so wildly if the sensor were more protected in its
more steady vacuum hiding behind the throttle plate rather than being more out in
the weather so to speak&nbsp\\;
snip&nbsp\\;
&nbsp\\;
This brings up an interesting question.
If helmet buffeting is hugly dependent on all sorts of seamingly very unpredictable things,&nbsp\\; I wonder what is giong on in the intake as the airflow to the AC changes.&nbsp\\; Non of this can be even remotly duplicated on a dyno. I know that this is a big deal in the in the snowmobile/carb world.

This may be the wrong forum to even bring this up
&nbsp\\;\\\\\\;
AW