There is no harm in doing the Stage 1 download. But I always go back to Harley's statements in the Fall 2006 issue of the Enthusiast Magazine. It stated that the TC96 engines would make 7-11% more power after exhaust/air cleaner upgrades without having to do any EFI remapping. This was Harley-Davidsons statement. While they were primarily referring to their own exhaust and SE air cleaner upgrade, most exhaust systems are going to react in an identical manner.[/align][/align]The simple truth is that the open loop AFR values in the HD ECM are mostly in the 13.5 to 12.5 range. Even with the improvement if exhaust flow and air cleaner flow, these AFR's are not going to go below 13.8 to 12.8 (or about .3 leaner). I've already seen data from Andy that verifies this. So there is no way the engine ever goes to lean to hurt itself. If you check recommend AFR from experts with more credibility than me, you find their recommendations generally are as follows:[/align]13.5:1 AFR produces the best torque[/align]12.5:1 AFR produces the best HP[/align][/align]So this means to maximize power output in any engine, your mid range AFR should be 13.5 through the torque peak, then you richen the mixture gradually to 12.5:1 at the max HP RPM. So any AFR between these two ranges is quite adequate for street work.[/align][/align]-The IED/XiED have proven to be a reliable, low cost way to improve the closed loop AFR.[/align]-Richer closed loop AFR's in the 14.2 to 13.8:1 AFR range provide a variety of benefits such as: Lower engine/exhaust temp, smoother idle, better acceleration, reduced/eliminate engine ping, etc.[/align]-The average rider spends 95-98+% of their time in the closed loop mode, so only 2-5% of the time does the engine every enter open loop. And even if it enters open loop, the time frame is less than 10-15 seconds.[/align]-Harley-Davidson has already documented that the Open Loop ECM settings will support 7-11% more HP. This is with no remapping. This shows that the Wide Open ThrottleOEM fuel map is plenty rich.[/align]-The HD Stage 1 map isprimarily a change to the rev limit of the engine and an update to the VE values of the ECM. Changesto AFR values are pretty much prevented by EPA regulations. SotheStage 1should restore a true 12.5 WOT AFR.But the OEM fuel map in the same circumstances isin the 13.0 to 12.8 range. The difference in powerwill only be seen on a dyno.[/align]-Riders who did the Stage 1 download pretty much agree that they saw little or no improvement in theirdaily riding experience. When they installed the IED or XiED, they saw significant differences.[/align][/align]So those are the majorFACTS.[/align][/align][font=arial][color=#000000][size=2]Ask riders who installed the Stage 1 download or those with V&H Fuel Pak (a close analogy of the HD Stage 1) before adding the IED/XiED which had the most favorable impact on their riding. Ask if they had to give up Stage 1/FP o

 

Got my xied's this morning and installed the on my 07 street bob. These things are the best thing I've done to the bike so far, the throttle response is better and the heat issue seems to be less so far.

 

Congrats Pstew, welcome to the XIED Club. Your heat issues are over. I've tested mine on days as hot as 94 degrees and they still kept the motor running cool. Give us more feedback after you have a chance to ride it some more.

 

Badbs101,

Go for the XIED's. They'll set your closed loop at 13.8. Then you can run your after market AC, and exhaust. You won't need the SERT or any other fuel mngt device with them. For $109 they're the best bang for the buck.

 

Gentlemen.
I received the XIEDs yesterday. Put them on the scooter this morning and didabout 200 miles.
They were very easy to install. I was able to get to the rear wire without removing the battery. It may have been easier to remove the battery, but I got them on fine, just took a bit longer.
Fired the bike up. Idled a bit higher. Deeper exhaust note. Throttle response - finally!!! The way the bike should have run in the first place. I had great response. I kept surging through the bottom of each gear to make sure that it really was happening. Aside from the low end, I noticed the power carrying through part of the mid range also.
Heat - with the stock setup, the bike ran HOT! I mean damn hot! The only good thing about this was warming my hands on freezing mornings. Well, today was chilly and the hands remained cold. The XIEDs dropped the temp drastically. I will check the actual temp and report it, but just by feel, the difference was impressive.
All in all, the XIEDs did more than I expected. Cruiser refers to them as IEDs on steroids, and I couldn't agree more. I am very pleased with the results, especially since I am noticingthe huge difference.
Thanks to Steve at Nightrider and most of all to this thread for the real life review of his products.

 

Thanks for the write up Marcello on your XIED's. Sounds like your enjoying them and having fun.

Best Bang for the Buck....XIED

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: badbs101 My next bike will have a stock air cleaner, aftermarket slip-ons, and IEDS.[quote]



That is what I have decided I am going to do.....the hard part now is which slip-ons???

My XiEDs were in the mail when I got home from the east coast (youngest daughter had first baby). Bike is at the dealers and readyfor me to pick up! Dealer is 170 miles away and the weather forecast says rain all week.........but, progress is being made....soon, soon....[8D]

 

I've already got the SERTwith my O2 bias tables maxed out like my above post says.I bought it last year before I knew about IEDs. My postalso says that if I ever get another bike (looking at a FLHX) I will get the IEDs or XiEDs with some slip-ons and be done. In short, I agree but I already blew the coin on a SERT and my bike is running great with it. :-)

 

Forgive me if this has already been asked. I tried reading this thread from the begining, got to page 12 before I realized it was 32 pages (for me). I have an 07 RG with the H-D 103 stage II, had the stage I download, SE A/C, Rush 2" slip ons, and the fulsac true duel kit. She runs pretty hot when it warms up around here(Chicago area) and the plugs, right now, are mostly chalky white. I posted in the touring forum asking if I was putting my bike in danger by not adding some kind of fuel management and one of the replies pointed me to this thread. It sounds too good and easy that I can just get this XIED and cure my problems. I really tried to understand most of technical stuff that has been going on in this thread, but it is pretty much over my head. Is there someone here with a similar setup running the XIED? It sounds soooo much better that what I was thinking I was going to get (tmax/auto tune= $600 and up) thinking I might do more mods. The only thing I think I might change now would be to go to the D&D fatcat. Is this still a good option for me? Thanks for any advice/help.

Steve

 

I might be the close to your set up with the True Duels. HD doesn't have a map for your TD's. I found that out with the heat score on the heat shield. They put a V&H FP on it.

If you look at some of cruisers post, you'll find that the stock system is capable of giving you enough in open loop. The V&H and Stage 1 download do very little in the closed loop portion due to EPA and CARB.

Now I'm not sure about the download for the 07's. They still might have had the non- EPA compliant down load which would help. It's way better IMHO than what they were offering for the 08's.

If the XIED's were around when they were playing with my set up, I might have opted not to go with the FP. I still might take it off due to warranty concerns when I travel abroad. Then again, I do hot road around and do spend more time than average above 50% on the throttle. (Hilly conditions two up. Don't care to down shift)

My pipes play a factor in my set up as well. They come out at 1 7/8 and step up vs. 1 3/4 like most. Steve Mullen from Nightrider figures this is a nice set up for how my bike is now and for some mild mods (cam,head work) down the line when the warranty ends.

If I were you, IMHO only, I'd go with the XIED's and hold off on the T-Max. You already have everything else( Download, a/c,TD's) and your bike still falls into the warranty window for another year at least. For $109 vs. the price of the T-Max, it's well worth it. Try it out for a day or two. If you don't think they're doing anything, take them off and then see the difference.

Before you go into the dealership, take 5 mins and take them off. You'll be surprised on how well they work. 32 pages and 99.9% positive feed back can't be wrong.