YBNormal67.

You can get insight, but depending on where it comes from it's all going to be different.

There seems to be a difference of opinion on these things.

Based on your goal as to just have a good running bike with little hardware, I'll stick my neck out. I'm assuming when you say a good running Bike, your not referring to setting the land speed record at Bonneville. You just want the Bike to run good the way it was designed to run.

Do it in steps. At any step where you feel you have achieved your goal, then stop, be happy and ride.

I would start with the least expensive option. Put on the XIED. If your like most people your done. You'll be happy with the way the Bike is running. Plus it will be running cooler.

Option 2 would be to add the stage one download for another $200. Sorry I can't comment on this as I don't run it. I stopped at option one cause I was very satisfied.

I can't see any reason why you would need a fuel pack. The open loop portion of the Bike runs plenty rich.

This advice is for the average everyday rider who just wants a good running Bike without getting overly complicated. Try it, if your not satisfied you can always spend another $200 at the dealer.

 

Thanks Cruiser,

You are correct I do not plan on setting any records and I never ride with a passenger.

When I started this endevor I was just concernedabout damage due to too leanconditions after addding the rush and stage 1. I wasmis-informed and under educated on the subject which aslead me to where I am now.
I think when I get my XIED's I will remove the fuel pack and see where I stand.

Anyone with the stage 1 kit and the HD down load with rush slip ons care to comment?


Thanks again for the advice.

I will keep youupdated when Ifinally get this mess sorted out.

Later,
Joe

Updated 5-2-08
I spoke with my guy at the dealer yesterday and today about different ways to get my bike where I want it.
He told me that yes HD "recommends" ( more money for them )the down load for the stage 1 kit. BUT they have done many installs with stage 1 and slip ons with out pushing the down load. He told me I should be fine with what I have if I remove the fuel pack with out the down load. I know each bike and rider is different but this is what I am going with for now. I will post my results when I can get my XIED's installed.





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Joe,

I've had many long talks with Steve. Steve is the kind of guy that if he sees a problem he goes after it. Just look at the 06 issue for instance. He could of easily just said the IED's were for 07 and up and not be bothered. But that's not the kind of guy he is. He went after the problem and solved it. Why do I bring this up?

Because from the beginning Steve studied the Delphi fuel injection system. What he saw was a good system that was too lean in only one area, the closed loop portion. The open loop portion is plenty rich. He has measured AFR's at the exhaust and come up with results from 12.8 to 13.1. Certainly rich enough for any bike with an air kit, and or exhaust. But the closed loop portion was too lean because of EPA mandates. It was only running at 14.7. This is why he developed the IED. To richen up the weak link of an otherwise good system. If he had seen a problem with the open loop believe me he would have fixed that too, but what he found was an open loop that was rich enough. So he developed his IED with an AFR of 14.2. The rest is history. We all know the benefits of what that little change did for the Bike. Cooler engines, better throttle response, and acceleration.

But he didn't leave it there. He went on to develop the XIED. Now we're running at 13.8 in closed loop. Certainly a rich enough mixture to support an air kit and exhaust. Proven by the engine temperatures we are seeing. The Bike runs the way it should have all along. It's nice and cool now, great throttle response, and awesome acceleration.

I have a K&N air kit along with Rush slip ons with 2 inch baffles. I rode my nike the other day in 94 degree weather and it still ran nice and cool. I don't need any stage one download. I'd just be throwing my $200 away. My Bike runs better now than it ever has. Besides the dealer wouldn't sell me the download way back when I first changed exhaust on my other Bike. I had to have all HD parts. Just another one of their gimmicks to make more money off of us. Go talk to different Techs at the dealerships, and ask them what the stage one download does. I guarantee you will not get the same answer twice. The only thing I have heard more than once is it raises rpm's.

Put the XIED on your Bike and ride it. If you still feel like you need something else than go spend your $200. But I seriously doubt you will have any additional needs after you feel the way the bike runs with the XIED's on it.

 

If you really want to feel the difference, run the XIED's or IED's for a day and then take them off. You may think that there is no difference once you put them on, but you'll really notice when they're gone.

 

Good point Heywood!

 

Been there, done that. Un-did it, not going back
Wasted big buck on the last 4 bikes. Stage 1 is not what it claims. It still ran hot until i used the xied's that Andy let me try.

 

RaisenCain,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the download as a waste of money. Absolutely don't need them with the XIED's.

 

Im glad I ran across this thread. 1st of all...the guys doing all the tests and posting, you guys kick serious ***. 2nd, the designer, Steve, kicks *** too. I have an 07 Bob and ordered V&H big radius pipes with an open style a/c (90* bend with open, forward pointing element). I got the pipes for sound and the intake for looks as much as I did for the power. I was going to order a PCIII as well, til I read this thread. Now let me get this right, one last time.

The stock system is plenty rich in open loop for the mods I want, and when I buy the XIED's, I'll be covered in closed loop. I already have an oil cooler on here, cause in houston we have 2 seasons...Summer and January. And yes, I'll be buying from Steve cause after reading 32 pages of results, he deserves every damn penny he makes off of these things. Again, you guys kick *** and If i can provide any new info, I'll do it. Thanks!

 

What are you running as a set up now?

Once I remove the fuel pack I will be running Rush with 1.75 " Stage 1 kit ( no down load ) and the XIED's when they get here. After that I am going to see how it runs and then go from there.

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+1

My bike, bone stock no mods, was 13.8 AFR in open loop mode during a dyno run. IMO if you use a stage 1 air cleaner you should get the download or some type of fuel manager in addition to the IEDs. If you stay stock or only do slip-ons the IEDS will be fine by themself. I bought a SERT and had a dyno run to cure what Steve's IEDs do for a fraction of the cost. If I had only known about the IEDs last year.Additionally, if you have a SERT, make sure youor your dyno tech maxes out the O2 bias tables inclosed loop mode or you won't be getting any gains over stock in 90% of your real world driving situations.After reading up on this I called my dyno tech and asked him about this and he said the first thing he does is max out theO2 bias tables. He's a good tech recommended on another board and anyone in the Mpls. area who is looking for a good dyno techfor their SERT maps, shoot me a PM.

My next bike will have a stock air cleaner, aftermarket slip-ons, and IEDS.

[quote]ORIGINAL: CKinAZ

I've said this before in this thread and the question keeps popping up so I am going to elaborate a bit. The question is: Is the HD Stage 1 download worth it if you have both a high flow air cleaner and exhaust if you're running XIED/IED's?

First, everyone has to remember that the stock map is designed to get specific afr's in both open and closed loop modes on bikes with STOCK intakes/exhaust. I have read closed loop to be about 14.6:1 and open to be (sources vary here) 12:1 - 13.8:1. I have personally seen full throttle dyno runs show afr's of about 13.8:1 with a stock bike.

SECOND, IF YOU HAVE THE STOCK MAP AND RUN HIGH FLOW INTAKE AND EXHAUST, YOU WILL BE RUNNING LEANER IN OPEN LOOP MODES THAN A PROPERLY TUNED MOTOR SHOULD RUN!!! The XIED/IED's do NOT richen the mixture in open loop (once you are above 50% throttle or 4000 rpm). This is the whole point of the HD Stage 1 download (or a Fuelpak for that matter) - to make the afr's correct for intake/exhaust mods done when running open loop.

The XIED/IED's are ONLY going to richen up closed loop, which is fine for 90% of our riding, but the BIG problem I have with any recommendations to the effect that you can run the XIED/IED's with intake/exhaust mods and without any other ECM changes and have a correctly running bike in open loop mode is just flat out bad advice. All it is going to take is a hot ride up a long hill when your in open loop and people are going to have heat and pinging problems. I had pinging problems with mine when running the stock map as soon as I stuck the K&N filter in.


I think the IED's are a great product, but they are not a fix all. They are made to compliment a properly programmed stock or stage 1 bike (at least a HD canned stage 1 map - not a dyno tuned custom map) equipped with stock or stage 1 intake/exhaust. Like a lot of people that have chimed in on this thread, I've been building and tuning motors for 25+ year