Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
#1231
05-01-2008 | 07:57 PM
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Road Master
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From: Arizona
#1232
05-01-2008 | 08:33 PM
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#1233
05-01-2008 | 08:44 PM
Cruiser
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
I think I'm the guy that posted about my plugs being tan. I started with the stage 1 download ,no pipes or AC, bike ran a little rougher at idle with small increase in throttle response. Two days later I added S&S SPO slipons without an AC and ran the bike for another two days. I pulled the plugs (to cheap for a dyno run) and they were bone white. Two days later I added the IEDs and noticed better throttle response and a smoother idle, after another two days of run'n I pulled the plugs again and had a nice even tan color on both plugs. I've been do'n the same thing for years on my carb bikes, just checking plugs and run'n it with a tweek here and there till I was happy. I did order a VO2 AC from V/H and XIEDS and will do the same type of poor boy testing, swaping out the IED for XIED and then adding the AC. Only thing i noticed so far is 1100 rpm idle and I lost about 3-4 mpg, the mpg is likley cause of how I ride so it do'nt bother me to much. I will post my thoughts when the other parts get a work out if anyone is interested.So I pretty much think I'm set right now and my finger is sore from typing.
#1234
05-01-2008 | 08:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Canada
RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
After reading a post from BCGuy, when I put my XIED's last night, I deceided to let it run and watch my idle. (Raining cats and dogs)
My idle was bouncing between 1000 and 1050. The exhaust tone was even deeper.
Once the rain passes, I'm dying to take it for a run.
My idle was bouncing between 1000 and 1050. The exhaust tone was even deeper.
Once the rain passes, I'm dying to take it for a run.
#1236
05-01-2008 | 09:57 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Colorado
RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
ORIGINAL: CKinAZ
I've said this before in this thread and the question keeps popping up so I am going to elaborate a bit. The question is: Is the HD Stage 1 download worth it if you have both a high flow air cleaner and exhaust if you're running XIED/IED's?
First, everyone has to remember that the stock map is designed to get specific afr's in both open and closed loop modes on bikes with STOCK intakes/exhaust. I have read closed loop to be about 14.6:1 and open to be (sources vary here) 12:1 - 13.8:1. I have personally seen full throttle dyno runs show afr's of about 13.8:1 with a stock bike.
SECOND, IF YOU HAVE THE STOCK MAP AND RUN HIGH FLOW INTAKE AND EXHAUST, YOU WILL BE RUNNING LEANER IN OPEN LOOP MODES THAN A PROPERLY TUNED MOTOR SHOULD RUN!!! The XIED/IED's do NOT richen the mixture in open loop (once you are above 50% throttle or 4000 rpm). This is the whole point of the HD Stage 1 download (or a Fuelpak for that matter) - to make the afr's correct for intake/exhaust mods done when running open loop.
The XIED/IED's are ONLY going to richen up closed loop, which is fine for 90% of our riding, but the BIG problem I have with any recommendations to the effect that you can run the XIED/IED's with intake/exhaust mods and without any other ECM changes and have a correctly running bike in open loop mode is just flat out bad advice. All it is going to take is a hot ride up a long hill when your in open loop and people are going to have heat and pinging problems. I had pinging problems with mine when running the stock map as soon as I stuck the K&N filter in.
I think the IED's are a great product, but they are not a fix all. They are made to compliment a properly programmed stock or stage 1 bike (at least a HD canned stage 1 map - not a dyno tuned custom map) equipped with stock or stage 1 intake/exhaust. Like a lot of people that have chimed in on this thread, I've been building and tuning motors for 25+ years and I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about what this product will do.
FWIW - if you change intake/exhaust, I strongly recommend you change the ECM map or add a Fuelpak. Running the XIED/IED's with a dyno tuned map or a canned SERT map or PCIII is not a good idea - too rich in closed loop. If you go with the HD download, it will run properly in both open and closed loop modes once the IED's are installed. I have not run the XIED's, and based on the range that they make the O2 sensors run at, I have my concerns about consistency. Until I see a dyno run of a couple different bike with these, I will hold off any judgements. I DO have confidence in the IED's because they do not force the O2 sensors into a range where they become substantially inaccurate (where the XIED's make them work).
Hopefully, this will prevent some headaches later on for a few people.
ORIGINAL: Ybnormal67
Please forgive me for asking what might be another dumb question but I am a little confused after reading all the posts.
From what I gather the Fuel Pack is useless in my application. Am I right in concluding that I am basically running the Rush with SE A/C ( no download ) just on the stock ECM above idle? If so is this a concern or can the stock ECM handle the AF ratio with the higher flow throught the engine?
Is the HD download really worth the money? I am thinking IED or XIED's, remove the fuel packand leave the A/C and slipons where they are. Anyone see any issues with that?
Sorry that was more than 1 question. Just trying to get some input from those who have first hand experince with the testing and experimenting.....
Thanks for the help,
Joe
Please forgive me for asking what might be another dumb question but I am a little confused after reading all the posts.
From what I gather the Fuel Pack is useless in my application. Am I right in concluding that I am basically running the Rush with SE A/C ( no download ) just on the stock ECM above idle? If so is this a concern or can the stock ECM handle the AF ratio with the higher flow throught the engine?
Is the HD download really worth the money? I am thinking IED or XIED's, remove the fuel packand leave the A/C and slipons where they are. Anyone see any issues with that?
Sorry that was more than 1 question. Just trying to get some input from those who have first hand experince with the testing and experimenting.....
Thanks for the help,
Joe
First, everyone has to remember that the stock map is designed to get specific afr's in both open and closed loop modes on bikes with STOCK intakes/exhaust. I have read closed loop to be about 14.6:1 and open to be (sources vary here) 12:1 - 13.8:1. I have personally seen full throttle dyno runs show afr's of about 13.8:1 with a stock bike.
SECOND, IF YOU HAVE THE STOCK MAP AND RUN HIGH FLOW INTAKE AND EXHAUST, YOU WILL BE RUNNING LEANER IN OPEN LOOP MODES THAN A PROPERLY TUNED MOTOR SHOULD RUN!!! The XIED/IED's do NOT richen the mixture in open loop (once you are above 50% throttle or 4000 rpm). This is the whole point of the HD Stage 1 download (or a Fuelpak for that matter) - to make the afr's correct for intake/exhaust mods done when running open loop.
The XIED/IED's are ONLY going to richen up closed loop, which is fine for 90% of our riding, but the BIG problem I have with any recommendations to the effect that you can run the XIED/IED's with intake/exhaust mods and without any other ECM changes and have a correctly running bike in open loop mode is just flat out bad advice. All it is going to take is a hot ride up a long hill when your in open loop and people are going to have heat and pinging problems. I had pinging problems with mine when running the stock map as soon as I stuck the K&N filter in.
I think the IED's are a great product, but they are not a fix all. They are made to compliment a properly programmed stock or stage 1 bike (at least a HD canned stage 1 map - not a dyno tuned custom map) equipped with stock or stage 1 intake/exhaust. Like a lot of people that have chimed in on this thread, I've been building and tuning motors for 25+ years and I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about what this product will do.
FWIW - if you change intake/exhaust, I strongly recommend you change the ECM map or add a Fuelpak. Running the XIED/IED's with a dyno tuned map or a canned SERT map or PCIII is not a good idea - too rich in closed loop. If you go with the HD download, it will run properly in both open and closed loop modes once the IED's are installed. I have not run the XIED's, and based on the range that they make the O2 sensors run at, I have my concerns about consistency. Until I see a dyno run of a couple different bike with these, I will hold off any judgements. I DO have confidence in the IED's because they do not force the O2 sensors into a range where they become substantially inaccurate (where the XIED's make them work).
Hopefully, this will prevent some headaches later on for a few people.
#1237
05-01-2008 | 10:02 PM
Novice
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
In regards to plugs, I just completed a round trip from Colorado Springs to Dallas and back and a total of 1700 miles. I check the plugs when I got to Dallas and they where grey and when I got back to Colorado they where the same. The fuel grade that I used was 90 to 93 at the various places that I fuel up at. I would say if your running white then you are lean, even though my pipes turn a little more blue I still have to say the bike is running OK.
#1238
05-01-2008 | 10:20 PM
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RE: Nightrider O2 IED's - Field Test
Rider57
Not sure what you mean by your numbers, I'm new to this so I'am a little slow. Here is what I have installed from infromation that I got from Steve. I didn't know if you had something different in regard to setting up the close loop. Sorry if this is out of the bounds of this thread of the subject of IED's, but I feel that some of this information is related.
759584584700759
739584584700759
409409409700759
409409409700759
603603603700759
Not sure what you mean by your numbers, I'm new to this so I'am a little slow. Here is what I have installed from infromation that I got from Steve. I didn't know if you had something different in regard to setting up the close loop. Sorry if this is out of the bounds of this thread of the subject of IED's, but I feel that some of this information is related.
759584584700759
739584584700759
409409409700759
409409409700759
603603603700759