I've pretty much said the same thing. But the issue is the costs and total lack of dyno techs that know what they are doing, other than seeing how much money someone has in the wallet.
I have used the SERT in the lab and found it could be of great benefit to atech or rider provided they know what they are doing.
As far as "throwing money away", saving for head work, sert, exhausts is far simple when you are currently happy with the bike as it is now. Rider / passenger comfort is mostly the complaints listed here. As you stated, thats basically what the IED's and XiED'sare for.
As for gaining HP and cool rides by using the SERT, yes, it's easy. Dont over do it though.
We have a bike that has to come in for compliance testing before he can renew his plates or license. I know his bike and I know he cant afford the fine he is facing for exceeding, by far, the dictates of tampering. It's 3 times what his "custom work" cost him.
The IED's, in this state do not fall within the tampering clause as the standards do not fall outside the limits for emissions.
So it's a matter of $80.00 or $800.00 to the sky.
It's economics for 99% of the riders in this thread. It's riding season and by winter most will have a winter project for their ride. That's when I do mine.
One thing I have seen is this, most rider that invest in the IED or XiED go on to buy aftermarket exhausts and A/C, small items compared to head work / flow testing or even SERT and dyno time.

 

The other nice thing about the IED's/XIED's is the simple off and on. You can take them off in 5 mins, before you go to the dealer. They are a simple plug n' play device that does what it's suppose to. Richen up the closed loop portion of the map and make the bike run cooler. The smoother running , throttle response, and better sounding bike are just fringe benefits.

For the $$ your paying for the FP, PCIII, SERT, Thunder -Max + any dyno time you put in...... it's well worth it as long as you keep in mind what it's original purpose is. Cool it Down.

Here some of the conversation I had with Steve regarding piggy backing the systems:

Here is the story on V&H Fuel Pak to the best of my knowledge.
[/align]V&H is a CA company, so it is square in the sights of CARB. So they are not going to do anything to cause them to get fined by altering the closedloop range on any bikes. So they are not doing anything in the closed loop range. This means that FP does not help the fuel mixture for normal riding conditions. At least one rider using both FP and the O2 IED's got the comment from a V&H Engineer that the O2 IED's are compatible with FP.
[/align]
[/align]The "Stage 1" download from HD does not impact the closed loop range. Under EPA regulations, a manufacturer can not do anything to alter the OEM fuel maps in EPA mandated area. This happend to pretty much coincide with the closed loop range of under 4000RPM and under 50% throttle. So the HD downloads do nothing for the heat or 14.7:1 AFR mixture in closed loop range.
So can you use the O2 IED's with Fuel Pak?Certainly you can. The O2 IEDs actually compliment V&H FP because it covers open loop and the O2 IED covers closed loop. You can use the O2 IED's with virtually every piggy back controller on the market, every HD download available or SE Race Tuner.There are a few combinations that don't make sense (mainly SERT with the O2 IED's because SERT can accomplish the same in software) and some different ways of tuning (like not using the o2 eliminators in the TFI or PCIII race), but the O2 IED's are essentially "invisible" to all these upgrades.

I agree with the other posters about going for the Stage 1 download when they put on the Hi-flow kit to protect their warranty issues. I did the same thing. New bike on warranty, new systems such as TBW, ABS..... why not?? The IED's are invisible to the ECM. easiest thing for the "Average Joe" like most of us to put on and take off. What's not to like. $100 for something that works.
FPisn't a total waste of money. If the XIED's were available when I got into this, I'm not sure I would have gone with the FP. My situation is a little different than most due to my pipes. HD does not have a map for the 08's with TD pipes.

The other thing to think about is the warranty. All the tuners including the SERT void the warranty. Your individual dealer may back you up, but MOCO will not if it's going to come out of their pocket.

Would I do it again?? Yes. Stage1 for the Hi-flow (warranty)and the IED's/XIED's. The FP?? Yes...with the IED's ( my pipe issue) probably not with the XIED's.

If I hadn't put these pipes on??? I'd be happy with the IED's and some slip-ons. I just wanted to get the bike cooler. All the other benefits is just a bonus.

 

Will the XIED's be enough for true duals and a hiflow air kit? In other words, would it be a safe combination?

 

Yes it will. The only thing you might find/hear is :They may force the Stage 1 download on to you due to the warranty. They may have a map for the 07's with TD's. I'm not sure. HD has it right in their book. The download is required with the hi-flow.

HD doesn't have any TD's in their 08 line up, so they haven't got a map for it. They also eliminated the race download that was avalable for 07. Not EPA approved.

With the V&H pipes and Hi-flow, the IED's would be enough. The XIED's are more than enough.

 

Not on an Ultra, but if you look at the top of page 23, you'll see how I have them on an 08 RG. The rear one might look different due to my Bub7's, but the front should be close.

Hope this helps.

 

So true duals with the stock AC and XIED's would basically be overkill?

 

Heywood,

My previous Bike was an 07 Wide Glide. While the dealer was doing the first service at 1,000 miles I brought my pipes to him to have him install them for warranty reasons. They recommended the SE AC. But the service manager refused to flash the Bike with the stage one Flash because I didn't have 100% HD parts. The exhaust I had gotten was V&H Big Shots. Because they were not SE exhaust he wouldn't do the stage one flash. There's no consistency out there as far as what dealers do or don't do. He recommended a Race Tuner for me with several hours Dyno Time. That was the beginning of my problems with this dealer and my bike, it only went down hill from there.

 

I gotta go with Rider, Heywood, and Cruiser on this one. I am your "average Joe". I just bought my first Harley and love it. But it's clearly different and has different issues than my previous metric rides. I have a lot to learn and admit to being less than knowledgeable about V-Twins. But I do know that during thefirst 100 miles over a couple of days, that this bike runs hot. I snapped in the IEDs and immediately noticed the difference in sound, idle,throttle, and heat. I have no intention of doing big money mods.I just like to ride and be comfortable doing so. Maybe I'll do slip ons or a new AC later on down the road, but maybe not. Guys I know have spent hundreds of $$$, their asses arestill on fire, and they won't ride on 90 degree days because of the heat. I didn't spend 19 large to leave it home during the summer. For a guy like me, this was the best money I've spent so far. I ride in closed loop mode most of the time, so that's where I want some resolution. I'm happy so far and may upgrade to the XIEDs so I can be really happy. Just my 0.02.
PS (thanks to ironhead for the help on the sig pic)

Joe

 

Rider57 or cruiser85257,
I don't want to keep emailing Steve so I have a question. What would be the best set-up for us '06 riders with slip-ons, should we use the stock air box or SE A/C along with the DYN OiED's ?

Mike

 

Mike,
Put the slip-on's, on.
Get your A/C done the way you want.
Put the XiEDs' or IED's on.
Gap the plugs at .042
And ride like hell.
and have fun of course!